Sunday times article woman who fail at breastfeeding

[daffodil10]

I've just read this article aibu to be so sad that the situation discussed is still happening?

I can completely relate to the author, 14 years ago I was trying my hardest to bf and failed miserably. I had no support, only judgment and criticism. I can't believe that young mums are being given NHS booklets telling them that formula DESTROYS your babies gut when this is not true and only serves to prey on post natally depressed minds.

I was talking to a mum of a two week old baby last night, she was struggling to feed but was terrified of giving formula in case her friends, mil, hv, midwife found out. She couldn't handle the guilt. This is 2017, why is this behaviour by the breast feeding police still allowed????

Alice - why do you feel shit? It is obvious that babies in NICU with high care needs are going to be unlikely to breast feed as it is impossible to get that early routine established no one in their right mind would hold you responsible for that - or judge the feeding method - the priority is your health and your babies health and that is where formula is able to come in. That is a good thing. That doesn't mean you are a shit parent it means you are a great parent who had to go through a very difficult start.

There are several sets of twins in my family and one set started in NICU - at around 26-8 weeks - they have thrived since and are strapping lads now I think they were mixed fed at least to begin with - their mother had her own health to look after (after a very difficult pregnancy) and whether she breast fed or formula fed was not important in the scheme of things and certainly has no bearing on her merits as a mother.

We are told constantly that c sections are linked to obesity, asthma, type 1 diabetes and impaired cognitive functions with unknown long term effects. There's also the idea that babies born by c section miss out on the good bacteria that babies delivered vaginally get, which changes their gut bacteria for the worse. I've seen lots of articles along those lines and the idea that c sections are sub-optimal for babies is out there. Some people are stupid enough to judge you for having a c section. The NCT leader was a bit weird with me at our post natal meet up when she heard I had to have a c section. I got the feeling that she didn't want me to talk about my experience at all, and that I somehow wasn't in the right "club" if that makes sense.

Both my babies would have died if not for c sections though, so all of those possible risks pale into insignificance compared to the 100% chance of death.

Alicekeach you really think my comments were directed at you? Obviously if your child is poorly things are going to be different. Don't be so touchy.

It might help people to feel less sensitive about this matter if they remember that U.K breastfeeding rates are very low. Bottle feeding with formula is the norm here. You are not a victimized minority. No-one can make you feel shit about doing what the vast majority of mums do. It's like saying you feel shit about not using terry nappies despite knowing it's better for the environment. Most people don't. No-one's singling you out.

Personal experience of virtually zero nhs support of bf, twice. Not trying to martyr but sheer pig headeness got us through more than our fair share of issues each time (not an attack on anyone else just our situation). Little one hasn't seen a health visitor since he was a few weeks (now 1) when she was spouting about the wonders of perfect prep machines, how I should give him some water and not feel any shame for bottle feeding as 'it makes babies less whiny and a routine easier'...all wonderful advice for an exclusively bf baby . Friends and family all fine with me nursing for a few weeks, but then wait til a couple of months and watch over 90% suddenly get funny about it and start with the questions/digs/comments about rods for own back and baby getting to big along with switching to bottles being the answer to all the questions you never even asked. I see way more crap thrown at mums who bf, and have definitely experienced it. Saying that bf is the norm and is the ideal option isn't slating formula or saying it doesn't have a place. That's my 2p worth anyway. These posts don't tend to get anywhere, and there's an awful lot of media that's going to continue fueling the fued. I just wish that more people would see how dirty and underhand the politics behind formula marketing can be.

Getoffthetableplease I got comments too. A few colleagues who stopped BF early would say

• Oh are you still expressing? God it must be awful.
• So your DH doesn't give bottles? How can he bond with the baby
• My child was just so hungry and developing so quickly that breast milk couldn't keep up. Guess yours is not as demanding
• So glad I can diet as I'm FF now, must be a pain to have to keep your calories up for milk supply

And then when I stopped expressing (I continued to BF at home for several months)

• wow you look so much better because you've lost your milk, much thinner and healthier

If you succeeded at breastfeeding you may just have got lucky and for you and your baby it "clicked"

I actually think saying this is just as bad as saying mum's who switched to formula didn't try hard enough to be honest. Breastfeeding is very rarely a smooth ride for even the most experienced breastfeeder. Many mums go through a hell of a lot to succeed in breastfeeding, it's dismissive to say it's down to luck or 'clicking'.

That said,I don't for a second think that if you do not succeed at bf then you didn't try hard enough and saying something to that effect is wrong too. Very rarely is it that simple, but neither is making breastfeeding work.

It's true that many mums switch to ff as a result of misinformation from health professionals. Everyone I know who tried to bf gave up fairly early on because they felt they weren't making enough milk. If that were really the case for everyone then the human race would have died out years ago. It's frustrating to see so many mums who want to bf switch because of misinformation and myths.

Just like so many things women are set up to fail at BF. Worse, they are set up to feel that there is something to 'fail' at in the first place. This is totally unnecessary and hurtful.

You know how idealistic new parents are, you can remember it. It's ridiculous. Nobody would ever claim that they make ideal choices in any area of life but we are supposed to reach for the 'ideal' in terms of motherhood, and that's damaging to maternal mental health.

Are you an ideal human? Do you eat a perfect diet? Are you an ideal wife or daughter, is your home ideal? Why is ideal even sold as a goal to new parents and told that it is achievable? We end up feeling like we've failed at so many things, breastfeeding and birth just happen to be so personal that they hurt even more and so we often end up focusing on them as the area of failure. That's wrong.

And so after being set up to aim for this impossible goal (even if you can easily breastfeed that doesn't make you 'ideal' in any case) you are also set up to fail because hcps don't have up to date knowledge of breastfeeding, which is vital for success given many women don't know anyone who has breastfed and those who do it may be a small number. It's essential that all hcps who come into contact with new mums understand breastfeeding intimately and yet they don't. So you often find that women are given poor advice which sets them up to 'fail' at this particular part of the bullshit 'ideal mother' goal. If they are not given poor advice then signs that they are struggling are often missed. Women are not given advice on how they can continue breastfeeding if they wish to step down or combine with formula. Women are not told that they have options. Very often they are either told to keep trying or berated for trying too hard and told that they must give formula now. That might be the right choice (though it is sometimes inappropriate, again, because of a lack of training/knowledge from the people who need it) but it should be approached more sensitively, and formula can almost always be introduced with a plan for how it's going to be used to encourage return to full breastfeeding if that is what the woman wants. But women are set up to fail when this is not offered. We're set up to fail when a volunteer organisation which is not even allowed to advertise within the nhs offers much more comprehensive support than the professionals do, and when companies whose agenda is to sell you formula products and baby foods are allowed to disturb new mothers hours after birth to foist leaflets and free samples on you.

Of course women fail at this idealistic magazine ideal of motherhood but it's not their fault and it's a bullshit goal to begin with.

Isee, you aren't getting it. At all. Please try harder. If you just tried harder, you would succeed.

Assassinated

That's the ludicrous NCT for you. Perhaps she would rather you or babies die rather than c section.

I truly hope there's a special karma for bitches like that.

Unfortunately as a mum you need to develop a tough back bone as some people have no empathy or kindness or charm and love upsetting and undermining new mums.

The NCT coordinator tried to do this to my dil after her c section but I knew this shit would happen and went with her to the post natal class.

She was lucky she backed down when she did.

These councillors have minimal training and zero brains in general and can be the bullying type. Avoid avoid

miaow

Spot on

delete I never said breastfeeding was easy or that you don't have to work hard to establish breastfeeding (not that I would really know, given that I failed at it).

But I think it goes without saying that there is a lot of luck involved. Every feeding relationship is different and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've heard that multiple times including from mothers who breastfed the first child/ren and formula fed subsequent children.

I was lucky to have a very straightforward, natural birth. This does not mean it wasn't bloody hard work!

clalpolly

I think it goes from factual information to bullying when people use those facts to criticise or imply that other mothers aren't making the best choice.

One of my very closest friends was hideously sexually abused as a child. Having her DD last year was hard work in many, many ways (as it is for most women) but even before her DD was born she knew she wouldn't choose to breastfeed. Now, our social group is mainly lovely, intelligent Mothers who are, sadly, a little competitive when it comes to parenting. So she was given "advice" endlessly. And when I say advice, I mean beaten over the head relentlessly to the point where she cut off contact with many of them. When you're losing friends because you need to rant about "breast is best" with zero tolerance or understanding or empathy, you're nothing but a bully.

As an aside, both of mine were breastfed. I was fortunate that they both just did what they needed to do and we had no problems. But I don't for one second believe that means I've worked harder or loved them more or given them a better start; they're both complete asshats and if I'd needed to switch to formula, I'd have done so. At 11 and 6 nobody has ever asked "how did you feed them" and I doubt anyone ever will. I also doubt anyone could tell how they were fed; one aggressive-breastfeeding mother on DS1's school playground once told me "Oh, you must have bottle-fed DS1 for him to have so many ear and throat infections, breastfed children just don't suffer with those". Ironically it was DS1 himself (who was 6 at the time) who declared loudly "oh but I did get milk from your breasts Mummy, for a long time, and now DS2 does, doesn't he?" Those assumptions are lazy, rude and not even remotely true.

whooo

I think I would have laughed in her stupid face. Better alternative to slapping her as she deserves

Breastfeeding is just another stick to beat women with, whether you do it or don't do it there will always be someone who thinks it's their business and that you're doing the wrong thing. Makes me so angry

I've always thought men just wanted women to breastfeed because they don't have to do the feeding then.

I think how your child eats in later life is far more significant to their long-term health.

I've always thought men just wanted women to breastfeed because they don't have to do the feeding then

Only if your oh is a lazy arsehole.

Dh is amazingly supportive of me bf ds3, after ff dc 1 & 2. But I know he misses feeding ds3 and feels a bit of a spare part atm because he can't get involved nearly as much, which is completely different to before when he was just as involved Witt the dc as I was when they were babies.

Boob is ds3's food, drink, comfort and dummy ATM which means he's on it more than off some days. And it's gruelling, but now (6 weeks) I can see hope that it will improve. I just wish that I hadn't had to work out the realities alone and had had better info and support in the early days.

I had an early baby and spent a week in hospital round the clock pumping, feeding (or in tears while an HCP or dad did it) and not sleeping. I was very grateful for the help I got, but also uncomfortably aware of the hospital's pro-bf stance (comments from some staff; we were shown how to sterilise whereas if you came in expecting to formula feed you were left to own devices). This help continued at home (including tongue-tie ID which was dealt with). Some of this help has now lost funding; if I had a baby now maybe she wouldn't still be breastfeeding two years down the line...
I do wish we'd kept up a bottle of formula a day though, for practical reasons, and can't believe how ridiculously worried we were about giving her it.

However, I live in an area where very young mothers with little money will shop for bottles and formula as fashion statements and would not consider getting their boobs out for the baby - they are for men. We definitely need to get away from the music video message of pert little boobs peeking out of skimpy dresses to titillate men and normalise massive saggy boobs stuck in a baby's mouth. This is something even I (as a mature, educated woman) felt self-conscious about even around other breastfeeders.

I have attending breastfeeding cafes where hypocritical ex-formula feeders have been happy to bitch about bottle feeding. Really?! I know women who genuinely cannot breastfeed for medical reasons, but also some who probably could have if they had the right help but were probably unwilling to admit they didn't really want to or felt weird in some way.

I should add that I've never really enjoyed breastfeeding - I'm happy to have done it and like that I've had an instant fix for an unhappy baby (I'm fundamentally lazy), but there was no magic sensation for me - something I think is also over-egged and makes women who have problems feel worse.

I resent some of the assumptions on this thread. DS would not sleep at all without a formula top-up after bf. He could not just be kept on the breast infinitely, increasing my supply, as he would scream, thrash, and refuse to suckle on an empty breast. So, I had to at this point make up a bottle of ff and after DS fell asleep for few minutes (he certainly didn't sleep more than 45 Mon at a time), I would rush to pump on my breast for a good half hour (and get maybe a max of 20 ml). Then sterilise the lot. Then DS was awake wanting to feed again. I was nearly psychotic with exhaustion, isolation and the dawning realisation that I might have just ruined my life. And DS's of course. On HV's suggestion, I kept an obsessive diary on how much of bf and FF DS was getting and at what intervals. I became hell bent on reducing the FF topups with the help of constant pumping and fenugreek tablets. Fucks sake, that was no life and I simply wanted the nightmare to end. It was only due to my exDH being able to take significant amounts of time off from work to take care of me that I was spared the mother and baby MH unit (they came to interview me).

Somrtimes it better not to try too hard at bf. I should have gone on SSRIs immediately after birth and simply FFd instead of all that mental and physical VB torture that made absolutely no sense, while in such bad state mentally, but no HCP would tell me so! I can understand why, but on the other hand I was very clearly unwell and the whole BF thing became my sole focus.

VB? Don't know where that came from... Haha. I had an emcs, so me and DS would have died many times around in the olden days!

I was very fortunate in that I was able to breast feed my ds1 with no problem but I found it hard and to be honest did feel a bit tied to the house as wasn't comfortable breastftin public. With my twins I breast fed for a short time but supplemented with formula, I felt no pressure to continue ebf from any health professionals. The area I live in seems to have very low breast feeding rates and maybe that contributed to my not feeling any pressure or guilt for not breast feeding, in fact my Hv seemed amazed that I was even trying to bf twins. I have bonded as well with my twins and they are thriving now on exclusive formula feeding, and so am I! It is a shame that this is such an emotive and blame ridden topic, and I really feel for first time mothers who are just trying to do their best.

I have never come across this regarding formula feeding.
My HV and midwife both suggested do what is right for me and my baby. I currently have a 5 month old who is EBF, but I would not say anything to a mother who is formula feeding.
I don't mention it a lot to be honest as people say BF is 'why he's not sleeping through' and 'it's not fair that others can't baby sit'.
I think both sides have pros and cons so just do what is right for you (that my opinion anyway)

I say this on every BF thread. I will only support breastfeeding promotion and propaganda when every woman who chooses to do so is adequately supported. I cannot support throwing leaflets at women who don't want to breastfeed, while pushing formula at every woman who has the slightest difficulty instead of offering practical support.

It's like giving someone who runs marathons a leaflet about why running is great, but not giving a crutch to someone with a broken leg. It goes for the easy targets; a few leaflets and posters here and there, instead of actually tackling the lack of support preventing many mothers in this country from breastfeeding when they want to.

I don't doubt we have issues with attitudes towards breastfeeding and the way it is promoted, but I will not condone or support more leaflets and public health campaigns until every woman leaves hospital feeling that she was properly supported in establishing breastfeeding.