Sunday times article woman who fail at breastfeeding

[daffodil10]

I've just read this article aibu to be so sad that the situation discussed is still happening?

I can completely relate to the author, 14 years ago I was trying my hardest to bf and failed miserably. I had no support, only judgment and criticism. I can't believe that young mums are being given NHS booklets telling them that formula DESTROYS your babies gut when this is not true and only serves to prey on post natally depressed minds.

I was talking to a mum of a two week old baby last night, she was struggling to feed but was terrified of giving formula in case her friends, mil, hv, midwife found out. She couldn't handle the guilt. This is 2017, why is this behaviour by the breast feeding police still allowed????

Ovaries nicely put.
I genuinely don't know what I would have done if I'd had no complications and had to leave hospital after a few hours.

I guess, what my point is that sometimes BF is not the best for mother or baby. It depends on individual nursing couple. Sometimes FF is much more beneficial. Perinatal MH problems are a significant, rising problem and cause much more severe problems down the line than "giving up" BF can ever do (ranging from smaller ones, like mild social and educational problems, to the death of both mother and baby) I am barely alive this day due to the woefully inadequate care and support I received. There are many like me.

Particularly, the "destroying baby's gut flora" script needs to disappear, if, indeed, topping up with formula is so normal and expected.

I do agree with what Ovaries and a few others have said - the lack of support for bf for women who want to do it is shameful. The two most useful sources of support I found were La Leche League meetings and a FAB group called Breastfeeding support and information UK. Without them I would have given up.

I also think "I don't want to" is a perfectly valid excuse not to bf. There's lots of evidence that playing Mozart is good for babies' development, and i should have been playing some to her in the womb every day; but I can't stand that shit so I didn't. There's evidence that doing pelvic floor exercises 6 times daily during pregnancy is very beneficial, but I had a life and kept forgetting so I didn't. We all prioritise. No-one should feel compelled to bf if they don't want to, or to continue if they try it and find it's not for them.

But no-one should stop because of lies or omissions. Like women whose newborns don't sleep more than 30 mins at a time and want to feed constantly who are told or assume that means baby is not getting enough milk - no, this is perfectly normal (if soul destroying) newborn breastfed behaviour. If you find it exhausting and either think that being rested and content is more important for your newborn, or other children, or indeed your own experience of motherhood, and formula helps you achieve that, then you should use formula! But own it and don't believe or spread the lie that you "didn't have enough milk" or " milk didn't come in" - this is actually vanishingly rare. The vast majority of mothers make enough milk for their babies. And every woman who gives up feeding because they were given wrong information, then passes that information on, adds to the statistics that the majority of women want to bf, but only a tiny minority do so for any length of time.

Lela: There is no Mozart effect.
And I hope your rant was not aimed at me, seeing as DS would not sleep at all without his FF top-ups (10 mins passing out from screaming at the most- he was a rather angry baby!). And it was literally a 24/7 job to get my supply up to scratch over 3 months in. Perhaps some of us are better at only ever sleeping in a few 5 min chunks without ever falling asleep in the sofa with baby (bad) or doing something else bad, like dropping them because being too exhausted to think clearly and forgetting to do the straps on the car seat (guilty as charged). I had no help or support from friends or family, apart from DH. Curse my weak-mindedness, but you can't fault me for not trying hard enough to establish ebf! I did, like I said, at 3 months, but after that I was given a "legitimate" reason to stop with DS requiring prescription thickened feeds (bm can't be thickened due to the enzymes in it).

Great post by ovaries. Throwing leaflets about and a two hour presentation on the benefits of bfing is the easy option. It achieves nothing if women don't have the ability to actually put the plan to bf into action.

lela, I get what you're sayin re the "lie" that you don't have enough milk etc. But I have to say that I blindly believed the other "lies" that my DD would get enough milk from me because "mothers always make enough milk for their own babies" and "under no circumstances let them have formula in the early days", which I firmly believed. She ended up losing so much weight in the first four days of her life that she had to be readmitted to hospital, rushed to the most critical part of the intensive care unit and fed (you guessed it, formula) through a feeding tube. The thing is that you just don't know what works or doesn't work for a mother and baby. "Owning your decision" has fuck all to do with it sometimes.

There is a reason why sleep deprivation is a for of torture. Some of us cope better at it than others. Being constantly exhausted for lengthy periods of time, in many cases malnourished and isolated (due to exhaustion and little to no support) too, as well as feeling guilty/like a failure, make it much more likely for someone to end up with postnatal MH problems.

My experience was that the midwives were only interested in helping those who were the most likely to succeed in bf presumably because it kept their stats up. If you had a 34 weeker who wasn't interested in latching on, they didn't want to know.

Spikey, my experience too.

PND is widely theorised (by e.g. Hrdy) to be nature's way of preserving the mother. If the mother does not have the physical or mental resources to look after her baby, she will begin to have negative thoughts about him/her, or, perhaps never even bond in the first place. This occurs, so that the mother is able to abandon the baby and preserve herself. The baby cannot survive without a carer and food, so will have to be sacrificed for the mother to be able to regain her strength (and perhaps have a baby later when her health and circumstances are better).

This, in our society, should be unnecessary, but still happens. The support needs to be there for mother and baby, and their individual needs.

8 years on, I'm not sure if I ever bonded with DS. It makes me feel sad and so guilty, although I know I tried my best. This is why it's hard to read about e.g. "be clear about FF being a choice, as anyone can do it if they just tried hard enough! Don't spread lies about not enough milk". I know for a FACT that I didn't for over three months. And I will not be gagged by anyone, thanks very much!

Plus an infant's cry, let alone a scream, is hard do listen to. It is genetically programmed (in baby and adults, esp. mother) to make you act on it. The baby is in need and requires them met for survival or to thrive. Listening to it for lengthy periods of time can be very detrimental to the mother's mental health. I, for one, would not have survived 3 straight months of it. It is possible that DS would have given up, but this is a bad outcome for the baby. When the baby is hungry, he/she requires feeding. Nothing else will soothe them.

don't believe or spread the lie that you "didn't have enough milk" or " milk didn't come in"

This is what I was told by more than one midwife and this is what I believe. Who the fuck are you lela to tell me what to believe and what I can say?!

Also, to previous posters talking about ff being the majority: I am in a baby group of 11. Only 2 of us ff. Of my friends, those who ffed did so reluctantly (predominantly as they had been given bullshit expectations about it being easy; support is not the same as information) and wanted to bf. So, national statistics are fairly meaningless to me and I consider myself to have failed.

Excuse my many posts, but I feel passionately about this. Parents need support to take care of their babies. It has always been thus. Alloparenting used to make it easier for parents in the past (and continues to do so in some societies), but the isolation in current western societies lacks the opportunity). Snide and ignorant remarks help no-one, whether about BF or FF or a plethora of other parenting issues.

I've had four DC. Two were BF and two were FF. I doubt very much that anyone could tell the difference now that they are adults.

When you become a mother, you seem to no longer own your brain, womb or breasts. Everyone seems to have an opinion.

As women, some of us will become mothers. Can't we not all support each other?

I must have a really bitchy resting face, as I have never had negative comments about my feeding choices with either child

Yesyesyesyeswhatever I appreciate all your posts 😊

Thank you, ravioli.

My unexpectedly hard-hitting experiences with DS spurred me on to research the subject of maternal ambivalence and PND. I subsequent wrote my MSc and other pieces on the subject, as well as forged a career specialisation out of it.

The divide in many of our western societies of mothers into "good" (sanctified "Madonna") ones and "bad" (vilified) ones is deeply embedded and a misogynistic tool to keep women in line. Last thing needed is for women to perpetuate this discourse. We need to be supportive of eachother.

I find it ridiculous that I've done more reading into breastfeeding since it didn't work (usually crying, and on my knees with exhaustion and the warning signs of PND going unnoticed) than I ever did before, for no other reason than I believed it would all be so easy. What was there to read up on?

I agree entirely about the divide being a misogynistic tool. I also feel that breastfeeding propaganda is the work of the patriarchy to keep women in their place.

Decaf and Ravioli I'm sorry if my comments weren't properly expressed. Obviously if bf doesn't work for whatever reason (illness in mum or baby, tongue tie, poor transfer etc etc) and it either can't be resolved or mum wants to change to formula, I'm not saying they should carry on regardless! Norvam I saying giving up bf is always a choice someone must own, nor am I saying when it is a choice a it is the wrong one for that mother and that baby. ravioli, you seemed to take what I said particularly offensively, so I'm really sorry if I upset/annoyed you.

All I'm saying is that often normal newborn behaviour is pathologised and diagnosed as " not enough milk" and women very reluctantly give up because they believe they are hurting their babies. Even though baby is regaining birth weight and giving lots of wet and dirty nappies!

I would never advocate leaving a baby hungry or a mum on her knees with exhaustion, PND etc if going on to formula can help with that, which in some cases it obviously can. Formula isn't bad for babies! It is good, and good for them. I would never deny this.

I was just told so much nonsense by mideives and HVs and my GP, and by other mums who had problems with bf and had been told similar nonsense in their turn. It was only because I got lucky and one friend introduced me to the FB group I mentioned I was able to keep feeding, which I really needed to do for my mental well-being having had a very traumatising birth ending in EMCS. It has so helped me to be able to do this for my daughter, and I am so horrified how close I came to giving up because midwives told me "the latch looks great" when my nipples were in tatters, HV told me when I was crying from tiredness at 4 days "you've tried and failed, lots of women do, send your husband out for formula", that my baby was starving because she cluster feed even though she had regained her birthweight in a week and a half. If I had listened to and believed all that, I would have given up.

lela, I agree newborn behaviour/normal processes like milk taking time to come in are pathologised.

But there is a huge amount of complacency from people who say things like 'babies won't starve' or 'just let the baby continue nursing and it'll be fine'.

If you have a very sick baby, you don't really have time to adapt your thinking, and you're in a terrible position to assess things rationally. If you've been told constantly that babies won't starve and that BF is best, you can cling to that desperately when it is actually medically risky to do so.

You'd think that everyone would shift gears mentally and realise 'oh, my baby's sick: the usual reasoning about breastfeeding doesn't apply'. But often people don't.

That's why I think it's better to make claims calmly and to contextualise them, instead of coming out with these soundbites about things being lies or myths.

The point is that nobody in our society should feel "horrified" at the thought they might have given up BF and FF instead, when given inadequate BF support. Infant feeding is such an emotionally charged issue for very little good reason. BF has some benefits (though, perhaps not as many and as significant as in the current
NHS rhetoric states), but this is only in a situation where all other variables (some of which are genetic and some of which are environmental, in both baby and mother) are equal (or equally good and conducive). What this means is that in some cases there is no difference in benefits or the balance tips over to FF being more beneficial. What I am trying to convey is that, in any case, FF is absolutely fine and absolutely nothing to be horrified about. Though, I, of course, agree on the need for more informed and readily available BF support for those for who want to BF.

Second the gut culture line being scrapped.
Being able to give the odd bottle of formula to have a break made the early cluster feeding days just about bearable

Oh and yesyesyes I found your posts really tough reading and fascinating. I really think I phrased myself poorly with the "own it" remark - I am also passionate on the subject as I couldn't believe, when I started getting good info and support, how shit the "help" I'd had so far had been. But I really judge no-one and don't think women "should" do anything but what's best for themselves and their babies holistically,be that formula or breast or combi. I just wish women who are keen but struggling were better supported, both to feed and to stop if that's best for them and their baby. So sorry if I came off any other way, it is such a sensitive difficult topic and I was a bit crass.

Re your last post yesyesyes, the horror was very specific to me and my circumstances - as I say I'd had a difficult birth and felt desperate to feed my baby as I'd planned - every choice is wanted to make about my birth had been taken away from me, I needed this one thing to work out so much for my mental health ( I have been depressed before and could feel myself at risk). Formula didn't horrify me per se - as I've said before, it's food and good food for babies. Not breastfeeding would have harmed me mentally, and I could do it, I was just really badly supported.

Lela: Apologies if I was though on you. It is hard to know people's motives until they specifically talk about them. Language is a blunt tool for human experience, but nevertheless the only one we have on boards like these. It is very good that you stuck by your instincts re. mental health. That, after immediate physical concerns, is the most important thing to attend to.

I think it is bad that having children is loaded with such expectations on being able to control everything and to be perfect as not to find yourself in the vilified "bad mother" bracket. I, myself, also happily wrote down a birth plan focused on water birthing and suddenly found myself having an emcs with virtually nil knowledge about it and with none forthcoming from the HCPs attending (non-attending, actually) to me while in hospital.

My vast array of BF paraphernalia, collected while pregnant, was glaringly redundant apart from the cursed breast pump.

In my mind I had failed at everything. However, pregnancy, birth and the neonatal period are highly unpredictable and individual things (more so than other circumstances in our lives), which no plan can adequately address. Perhaps the message should be that of "go with the flow and your instincts. HCP will support you through practical help and information along the way, so you don't feel out of control or lost or like a failure however you find yourself proceeding (with the proviso that there are no immediate dangers to anyone, of course)".

I posted earlier on in this thread and have just read the rest of the replies and seriously, some of the responses are fucking awful and are exactly the nasty bitchy comments some of us have experienced and have been complaining about.

How dare anyone say those who couldn't breastfeed "didn't really want it / didn't want it enough to keep trying" or "didn't understand milk doesn't come in for a few days so gave up".

I also don't think anyone has implied that the whole "breast is best" stuff should be ditched by the NHS as it might offend those of us who use formula - for me and many others on here, we had every intention to breast feed and it didn't work. Myself personally, I never ever considered formula as I planned on breast feeding until six months - but as my baby would not latch (had countless professionals try to help and they couldn't) it was formula or starve.

What needs to happen is for formula feeding to also be discussed in antenatal classes, so people know it's not the "unspoken evil" it's made out to be. Better yet, actually provide help and support for breast feeding - it was made out to be so simple yet clearly from the responses on here, it's not like that for everyone. I had to pay for private lacatation consultants as the midwifes and HV couldn't help - then again even the consultants couldn't do anything!

If I had the choice, I would have breastfed but my baby is happy on formula and is healthy and I won't have people tell me that I am a failure, clearly didn't want to breastfed enough to keep trying or wasn't educated enough about it.