Sunday times article woman who fail at breastfeeding

[daffodil10]

I've just read this article aibu to be so sad that the situation discussed is still happening?

I can completely relate to the author, 14 years ago I was trying my hardest to bf and failed miserably. I had no support, only judgment and criticism. I can't believe that young mums are being given NHS booklets telling them that formula DESTROYS your babies gut when this is not true and only serves to prey on post natally depressed minds.

I was talking to a mum of a two week old baby last night, she was struggling to feed but was terrified of giving formula in case her friends, mil, hv, midwife found out. She couldn't handle the guilt. This is 2017, why is this behaviour by the breast feeding police still allowed????

I think also instead of looking at things like frequency of feeding, weight, etc, we need to teach new mothers to look at the whole baby.

For example, if they are weeing, pooing, crying, feeding frequently, are pink, hydrated-skin plump, fontanelle ok, all those sign point towards the baby doing well.

Lethargy, not feeding much, sunken fontanelle, dry nappies, baby probably needs intervention.

Best thing my hv ever did was to tell me that if i looked at the whole picture, and took the focus off the feeding nightmare, it would be easier to see if there was anything wrong.

Thanks, lela - sorry if I jumped. LRD gave the considered response I should have!

Threads like this frustrate me because every comment should really begin with 'my experience'. It's unfair for any of us to assume that our experience is that of anyone else, or to make assumptions regarding anyone else's resilience.

It's excellent that the horrible stories that posters are sharing have not been sidelined by some of the usual MN suspects on this thread.(Fingers crossed)
I really appreciate hearing that it wasn't just me.

What I don't get is how they terrify you into bfing so baby doesn't die of SIDS AND about falling asleep while feeding & killing your baby. Catch 22.

Ravioli: You make a very good point about not generalising solely from our own experiences. Every mother and baby are different and exist amidst different circumstances. I, for example, had a horrendous time for the first few years of DS's life and will not have another DC, however this is not true for the vast majority of women. I try hard to give a balanced and open mind with all mothers I encounter. It is very important to be compassionate and supportive in a way that the individual requires to be supported. I am yet to meet a struggling mother who was truly intentionally clueless or non-caring when it comes to their baby/babies. As a rule, they feel guilt about the most insignificant things. They try hard to be perfect with the result of inevitable failure and exhaustion. This scenario with the added, common, bonuses of isolation and poverty can snowball to some very bad consequences.

I remember waiting in the GP's surgery at my parents when I was seriously worried about DS. The receptionist let me and another woman sit in an empty surgery to feed (not that we wouldn't have in the waiting room, she just thought we'd appreciate the elbow room - and we did). I remember listening to the other woman's baby, who was about 3 weeks younger than mine (mine was 8 weeks at the time, hers 5 weeks) gulping down breast milk - as in, you could hear him swallowing, tell there was liquid going in. Then she changed a nappy - and suddenly the scales fell from my eyes. The HV had told me DS was doing fine if there were dirty nappies - but dirty nappies didn't mean "a skidmark", they meant "full of runny (as in typical BF baby) poo".

I look back at photos of DS at that age and think "how could I not have noticed how ill he looked?" He had sallow skin, sunken, dark-rimmed eyes and a sweaty sheen. He had also got so exhausted he could no longer cry at night: I had to set the alarm to make sure he fed in the night (another poster's comment upthread about how she supposed her DS would eventually have stopped crying sent chills down my spine - I think DS was very close to that point).

My parents' GP (a lovely woman from a farming family originally) sorted me out and effectively "gave me permission" to stop, saying I'd given it a really good go for 8 weeks and it was time to admit it wasn't working. She joked with me (admittedly this could have misfired with another woman, but for me it was the most useful thing that anyone could have said) that if I'd been a dairy cow, they'd have sent me off for meat by now. (Yeah, I realise that sounds awful out of context - but in context, delivered with a twinkle in her eye, just the sort of black humour I needed). But since then it's often struck me that I bet we know more about milk yield, and more importantly, variability in milk yield, in cattle than we do in human beings. Cattle - it matters economically, so study it in great detail. Women - who the fuck cares, just guilt trip them and make them feel bad about themselves.

But inability to feed really does happen. I've seen the incidence estimated at 1 to 3%. Which sounds tiny, until you think that this means in a typical primary school with say, 210 pupils on the register, without formula, anywhere up to 10 of them might not have made it through infancy without formula. As someone said upthread, mother nature doesn't know best. If you think seriously about evolutionary biology, it's survival at a species level, not at an individual level. Individuals are expendable, so long as a reasonable proportion make it. All this crap about "women are designed to feed babies" absolutely gives me the rage - there is no designer, and evolutionary forces don't care!

Yesyesyes, thank you for your posts - really interesting.

I totally agree that it is SO important that we all look beyond our own experiences and take a wider view. And we must support each other, rather than allow ourselves to be divided and 'conquered' (IYKWIM).

It frustrates me though when it is not recognised just how good a job over more that 100 years the baby milk industry has done in normalising FF and making BFing seem like the exceptional choice and the 'abnormal' if that makes any sense. It starts with the name: 'formula' - as if it was something scientific and therefore somehow superior than boring old, cheap and free breast milk.

My mother in the 60s was told that she 'had no milk' within hours of delivery, both my brother and I were FF and to this day it is a source of (mild) regret to my mother. It is such a shame, but of course nobody has ever asked me how I was fed nor do I give a Scoobydoo

For anybody who is interested, there is nothing in medical or GP training about infant feeding, not one jot.
Some GPs are excellent, some will know where to find support for their patients and some are rubbish. Pot luck

It's interesting that along with the stories from women who felt they "failed" because breastfeeding didn't work out, there are also stories on this thread from women who felt they needed to breastfeed as some form of atonement because they "failed" at childbirth (i.e. had a c section).

It's actually quite sick that we set women up in this way, at one of the most vulnerable times in their life. Why are women made to feel there are a set of targets they have to meet when becoming a mother? How does this help anyone?

In my antenatal class there were 8 women, 5 had c sections and of the other 3 of us, nobody breastfed past 8 weeks. So that's 8 women who brought lovely babies into the world, all potentially feeling rubbish about themselves because they haven't met the "gold standard" of motherhood .

But breastfeeding is demonstrably, scientifically better for babies' and their mothers' long term physical health. Women need to be aware of that

Is it though? Can someone post a link to the evidence on this! Or is it that breastfed babies have better outcomes and mums who breastfeed have better long term physical health? Because they are two very different things and do not necessarily imply a causal link.

YY hamster.

My lovely friend had to have an EMCS due to preeclampsia and she kept saying how much she had wanted to bf, because otherwise she would feel as if she'd "just been handed a baby", due to her EMCS. No my love, you grew a baby in your body, by yourself and then you went through hell and high water, (not to mention major surgery), to give birth to him. As if all of that, the night feeds, nappy changes and dedicating your life to him isn't enough of you haven't had a vaginal birth and managed to bf.

It gives me the rage that we are made to feel this way tbh .

We are being divided and conquered by the patriarchy imo.

*if you haven't

mostly, that resonates. I'm so sorry you went through that.

I also think back and wonder why I didn't realise how ill DD looked. I even remember taking photos thinking cheerfully that she was on the mend - looking back at them now I'm stunned I wasn't more worried, as she was utterly floppy, unable to open her eyes, and her skin is grey.

Thanks LRD - and sorry to hear you've been through similar.

For me, it's ancient history now. Nearly a decade on, DS is a thriving bouncy athletic child. For him at any rate there seems to have been no detrimental effects at all.

I bet we know more about milk yield, and more importantly, variability in milk yield, in cattle than we do in human beings

Cows featured in my permission to stop too!
Me: but they said at the workshop animals don't need a workshop to feed their babies
Midwife: no, but cows have been noted to feed calves that aren't their own if the mother can't.

So, there you have it. Women. Dairy cows. It really is all much or a muchness...

My DS was premature, weighed 1lb 12oz. He had no sucking reflex, was on CPAP for 5 weeks so tube fed and had a brain haemorraghe at 6 weeks. I didn't even see the breastfeeding counsellor at the hospital, nobocy came near me. My family hired me a breast pump and 17 years ago the breast pump machines may well have been a medieval torture chamber. I perservered despite producing hardly any milk. One of the other SCBU mums milked like a cow and she let me use some of her breastmilk to feed DS with, By the time he came home, 3 months after being born he was FF.

But according to some I probably didn't try hard enough!

It defo works both ways, I have only bf once in public as I'm terrified of the idea of it. I live in a very pro bf area but I have been scarred by too many Daily Mail articles where people think it's disgusting etc.

It does chickpea; I've had filthy looks for bfing and filthy looks for ffing in public too. You can't win sometimes. It's another stick to beat women with, however they feed their babies.

It's so weird I don't understand why other people care/judge so much.

One of my friends bf till 2, 1 ff from birth as didn't like the idea, 1 moved to ff as daughter had food intolerances & allergies. 1 bf through tongue tie, mastitis etc. It would never cross my mind to judge anyone of them. Everyone was secure & confident that what they chose was right for them. That's all that matters.

On a side note I had a semi elective C section with my 2nd child. Failed induction/unstable lie & I was devestated as I felt cheated out of the natural experience. We beat ourselves up far too much!

Decaf I have to disagree with you that the feeling of loss after a failed induction or an unplanned CS is the fault of "the patriarchy". I still cry when the subject of birth is represented in films, TV, books, because I'm still so gutted that I have no idea what it feels like to go into labour, to have a natural contraction, to feel my baby moving through me and coming out into the world through our joint efforts. To have been able to take her in my arms and hold her while we were still joined to each other by the umbilical cord. To have been the first thing she saw when she opened her eyes. To have been able to hold her skin to skin and be a comfort to her as she came into a noisy bright scary world. And yes to have been able to feed her straight away. For her to have been properly awake when she was born instead of bloated with IV fluids and dopey with pain relieving drugs from my body. I was lying on the table numb from the neck down like a piece of meat while she was shown to me by my partner, while I tried to tell the medical staff I was having trouble breathing. I did just feel like someone had handed me a baby, after torturing me for 2 days. Not because I felt like I had to suffer to have a baby or I didn't 'deserve' it as such... But because I didn't do anything. I didn't "give birth". I was given drugs which put me in enormous amounts of pain, was given more drugs to make the pain bearable, and when it became obvious my body was never going to do what it was supposed to despite all this assistance I got cut open and someone took my baby out. I can't just get over it because I grew her and love her and will raise her. It has traumatised me, and that is not "society's" fault, it is personal to me and what I wanted from what is a seriously unique and important life experience. For another woman, it wouldn't necessarily be so.

And breastfeeding her mattered so much to me after that because, after that, I wanted to have that experience, to feel I was doing something for her that only I could do. Again that is personal to me. But I don't think you should just dismiss it as 'the patriarchy' (although of course it may have been different in your friend's case).

Lela - I felt the exact same. Never ever expected to have a c-section & I was looking forward to labour weirdly. My first was super quick, no time for drugs (gas didn't even kick in) & I assumed it would be the same 2nd time around. I was so determined to bf as it was important for me.

My daughter was unable to breat feed, bottle feed or tube feed milk.
Is completely iv dependant and has the nost artificial made nutrition you can get that goes through a central line in to the main vein of her heart for 16 hours a day.
Despite this at times nearly losing her life she is a well developed smart and on track mentally and socially but not physically the artifical feed has many down parts...it can cause sepsis which we nearly lost her to and liver failure.

I am so glad formula is available for others

I've breastfed both my babies, I've got nothing but agro about it. All my friends formula fed, I've never said a word about their choice to do that but I've had nothing but judgements; I've been asked to feed upstairs away from ones husband as she didn't want him seeing it (I wear two tops-pull one top up and one down so you can literally see nothing!), asked if I can go to the toilet in a restaurant, tutted at, stared at, been asked why I'm bothering, been told that it's sick and weird and sexual, I spent 5 weeks with swollen, red, infected boobs with no breastfeeding advisor or service available in our area, and yes I carried on because I wanted to do that, not judging anyone who doesn't I just wanted to. So honestly anyone thinking that breastfeeding mothers get support and don't get judged are very very wrong.

As far as I'm concerned its entirely up to the mother whether she breast or bottle feeds. Her decision to do either or both is no ones business but her own. No mother should be made to feel guilty or under pressure for the choice that she made of how to feed her baby.
I was lucky that my children had no problems with taking to the breast, but not all mums are as fortunate.
They have enough to do with putting it in at one end while wiping it away from the other without being made to feel like Shit for their feeding choices.

lela, the ideal birth you are describing sounds wonderful. I had a vaginal birth but also had to have a full spinal block due to pulling out my epidural and needing ventouse, macroberts manoeuvre and DD needed help turning on her way out. The phrase 'natural birth' is bandied about by some, when, without some pretty unnatural interventions, many babies and mothers wouldn't live to tell the tale.

Great lela, that you felt validated by managing to bf. The lovely friend I mentioned didn't. She's over it now, but the pressure to meet the 'natural' ideal, badly effected her MH. You disagree with me that this has anything to do with patriarchy, but it's certainly how I see it.