Sunday times article woman who fail at breastfeeding

[daffodil10]

I've just read this article aibu to be so sad that the situation discussed is still happening?

I can completely relate to the author, 14 years ago I was trying my hardest to bf and failed miserably. I had no support, only judgment and criticism. I can't believe that young mums are being given NHS booklets telling them that formula DESTROYS your babies gut when this is not true and only serves to prey on post natally depressed minds.

I was talking to a mum of a two week old baby last night, she was struggling to feed but was terrified of giving formula in case her friends, mil, hv, midwife found out. She couldn't handle the guilt. This is 2017, why is this behaviour by the breast feeding police still allowed????

There are 2 sides to this though. No-one should judge another mother for whatever feeding choice they make but iv had so many horrible comments from people about my choosing to Bf.

'Are you STILL feeding him/her'
'Don't you think they're a big big now for all that'
'You can't go out and do that'
'Just give him/her a bottle, its not fair on everyone else'
'Why can't you just let someone else enjoy feeding him/her'
'He/she will never put enough weight on if you don't give them some formula'

Just a snipped of things iv heard with DS/DD. I fed both to a year, judgement was everywhere.
I don't care how anyone feeds their baby but It's sad to me how little people actually know about breastfeeding, including doctors/midwives.

I do care though about the people who wanted/tried to breastfeed but had the wrong information/no support.
A lot of people who 'didn't have enough milk' or whose milk 'didn't come in' or who's baby 'couldn't latch', with the right support, probably could have fed successfully.

I think the attention should be on helping those who do want to breastfeed, not worrying about/criticizing those who don't.

lelapaletute well said.

I cannot understand how FF mothers - who are in the vast majority of mothers in the UK - are saying they feel bullied. Information is not bullying. Facts are not bullying.

DD was born via c-section - she was breech, I had no choice. She is healthy and has thrived. But if someone tells me "natural birth is ideal" I am not going to say I'm being bullied! Or that they are shaming me! There are proven benefits to natural birth esp. related to asthma and allergies. That's just reality.

There's also a complete lack of consistency with advice. As the midwife spoke of formula top ups due to slow weight gain, I pointed out in the NHS guide where is said that breastfed babies regained weight slower; I was told that was just generic information. The midwife said my supply was insufficient for a big baby and I pointed out in the guide where it said that my supply would be exactly what my baby needed and not to worry that my baby wasn't getting enough; I was told that this was not the case and the reason why some people needed wet nurses or babies died.

There's no such thing as an unnatural birth though!

Facts rammed down people's throats can be bullying.

Telling women they shouldn't be bf is bullying. Telling women they shouldn't be ff is bullying.

Stop judging and refused to be judged. Gets easier as you get older.

Some of things I've heard as a FF mother;

• How will/do you feed DD?
• Why?
• But what about that colostrum?
• You do know breast is best right?
• Why would you not give what's best for DD?
• You and DD won't bond as well with a bottle
• DD won't be as healthy
• You're selfish
• Its wrong

-

shit

And 'tis all bollocks isn't it

I never understand these threads. Breastfeeding is done by a minority of mothers. The majority either don't do it at all or stop very quickly.

How on earth can bottle feeding mums feel persecuted? They are in the majority!! We have some of the lowest bfing rates in the western world. Of course the NHS should encourage and promote it. It's a very good idea!

I don't get these threads either as I just can't get my head around caring a flying fuck how another adult chooses to feed their bsby.

It's baffling

A lot of people who 'didn't have enough milk' or whose milk 'didn't come in' or who's baby 'couldn't latch', with the right support, probably could have fed successfully

This. It's virtually never true that a mother doesn't have enough milk. Yet you hear it all the time. Support and information would help a lot of these women. They do have enough milk, they just need to feed a lot to produce it. You need to be feeding a newborn very, very regularly - I blame Gina Ford and her ilk for filling new mums' heads with this "every 3 hours" nonsense. Put the books away and feed on demand. Breastfeeding is a very demanding thing, I do understand that not every mum wants to be so tied to her baby.

The other thing that grinds my gears is the mantra that "if it hurts you're not doing it right". I think a lot of women probably give up if it hurts. I have fed three babies and it always hurts for to begin with. The first 10 seconds of a feed in the early days are properly toe-curling.

What I hate is when formula feeders feel the need to justify it and lecture me with a litany of reasons as to why they "couldn't" breastfeed.

Most of it completely wrong and could have been overcome with good support. Being told they couldn't feed a big baby. That the baby wouldn't go more than 2 hours, so they must have been starving. They wanted to feed constantly so the m/w said they didn't have milk. Their mum said x y and z... the baby cried all the time=no milk

I don't judge them for ff, i judge the people who were supposed to be supporting them. The major issue i have is i know i need to bite my tongue, but these conversations just perpetuate the misconceptions, and if they say it to a struggling mum she may just think that maybe babies shouldn't feed 2 hourly, and she should give up too.

Otoh, i absolutely want to cheer when someone says "i just didn't want to". That does more for the bf cause than the whole "i really wanted to but /insert reason above*

You have a choice. It is entirely reasonable not to bf. This is why we need to educate everyone, and not just push "breast is best" on pregnant mothers.

I have no issue with formula feeding - I think it should be available freely and cheaply. I breast fed from 2004 to 2011 (3 children 2004/06/08) with only a couple of months gap. I tandem fed a newborn and 20 month old ds. I fed while pregnant twice. I never gave much thought to the alternative after initially thinking I would be breast feeding for 6 months and then move on to formula - ds had different ideas he refused bottles and formula so I ebf then reduced feeds as food and cows milk was introduced. For dd1 and dd2 it was the same I didn't bother introducing formula as bf worked pretty well. I was able to be discreet and though for me I had to deal with mastitis, wearing bf friendly clothing and fielding "you are not still breastfeeding are you?" questions and the occasional really hilarious "bitty" comment . For the kids they were happy to keep going way beyond their first and second birthdays - I stopped at around 2 1/2 with dd2 but she really wanted to continue.

So I have no issue with ff and think bf is normal - I do have an issue with a society that has such hang ups around bodies, breasts as sexual objects and breast feeding being somehow self indulgent or superior. Less angst and more camaraderie would be nice. We all want to keep or babies alive and well - if you can't or don't want to breast feed there is a convenient alternative. If the NHS need to alter their message - or the way it is communicated to prospective parents then fine - campaign for that.

But - I find that the way people feel about breastfeeding and formula feeding is extremely personal and tied up with all sorts of complicated issues. How you were brought up, how you feel about your body, your economic class, your location in the world. All that psychological baggage we carry around so unpicking it all and looking at the issue objectively is nigh on impossible! It is all about the feels.

M0stly yes, I too would like to see a bit more number crunching on this. I am tired of the "breast milk is better. It just is" argument. I've read some of the available research and from what I've seen, I also suspect that while breastfeeding may be better where all other things are equal, the differences are not enough to justify all of this angst. But I would be interested to know more.

I wonder if it's even possible to get a sensible objective view on this though as infant feeding has become such a sensitive and politicised topic?

I think the major issue for me is that the NHS push breastfeeding so hard, but really often don't provide the support to back it up and give incredibly conflicting information on the best course of action when breastfeeding is not going well.

Haven't read the full thread but this really stood out for me. The only reason I breastfeed both dc for a year is because I bought a book about breastfeeding when pregnant with dc1 which really explained things in detail and informed me of what to expect. The information the NHS give out is dire, for the most part and it really annoys me that they push breastfeeding so much but aren't honest about how it works and what is needed to be done in order to bf successfully. It's not as simple as popping the baby on the boob and off you go, but many new mum's think this and then get a shock when the baby's here and they realise it's a lot harder than they were initially advised which then results in them feeling like they are failing or doing something wrong.

A family member recently switched to formula after trying really hard to breastfeed. I don't judge her at all, I feel for her if anything. It was hard watching her being given dodgy advice by mw's and hv's and not wanting to 'step in' and offer my own advice for fear of stepping on toes and coming across as a know-it-all/sanctimonious/etc.

To me it all boils down to the NHS not practicing what they preach. Maybe if they did then there would be a better level of understanding from both sides.

My bf days are over and quite frankly I'm glad. All this bf vs ff nonsense is tiresome.

waitforitdear good for you. Although you could probably write that for every thread on Mumsnet.

waitforitdear because it's very frustrating hearing that NHS promotion of BF is bullying and causes PND.

I hear a lot of stories here and elsewhere about women initially wanting to BF and then turning to FF because they lacked support. Just on this thread, people saying "I had no milk until 3-4 days." That's actually normal, it's colostrum until then. People who don't know what cluster feeding is, who think babies are meant to sleep through the night at 2 weeks old and anything else means they are starving to death.

The issue is that the NHS "promotes" BF but doesn't actually educate properly on what life with a BF newborn is like for the first month or so. So women feel they don't have milk or that it's too painful and they quit.

That's a good point ravioli. At my ante natal classes a volunteer from the local bf support group came to give a talk and she kept repeating 'if you can grow a baby, you can birth a baby and you can feed a baby'

I kept going over that statement in my head when I couldn't birth my baby and needed EMCS and I couldn't^^ feed my baby either due to so many factors - traumatic birth, gestational diabetes, tethered nipples for a start.

I thought the bf support groups were genuinely for support but having listened to them they are awful, implying that women who don't bf just aren't trying hard enough. Just because it's all lovely and natural for some of them doesn't mean it can be for everyone.

I'm a bit fucking sick of hearing about 'babywearing' and cloth nappies and how breast milk is the cure to all ailments too to be honest. It saps the joy out of parenthood when you feel like all your choices are shit.

When I was pregnant I watched YouTube videos of women breastfeeding and took books out of the library on the subject. I knew what to do and understood the biology behind it.

When I think of the people I know with babies, it's the ones who really wanted to breastfeed who did it. The ones who were a bit unsure, or half-hearted gave up. It's an matter of extreme determination. Some just don't want to be bothered. I think that's fine. It is very tying and not everyone want that. Just don't put others off having a go by spreading scare stories and rubbish about not having enough milk. That's hardly ever the case unless you are severely malnourished. When a new mum says she didn't have enough milk she usually means "I would feed him and he'd be hungry again an hour later". She assumes this means she doesn't have enough milk. It doesn't. It means she needs to feed him again.

I don't think the stats matter. "Breast is best" is being used as a stick to beat women into bf. Because rates are so low in this country very few women know what "normal" looks like in a bf baby, all they have to go on is ff friends and family. All the health profession is doing is saying it's best, you must.

Might as well say to a toddler that they need to learn to swim, it's best they do as not learning could be damaging, then just chucking them in and expecting them to swim while people on the side say it doesn't matter if they don't learn, none of them know how to.

It should be a choice. Offer proper bf information and support. Educate the friends and family too. Instead of the pre natal class on "breast is best" have a proper clinic on the process, that constant feeding is normal, it may be more demanding than ff as they need to stimulate milk production. What family can do to help-they should expect the new mum to be tied to feeding, and not be making them cups of tea or entertaining guests. Yes, feeding again is normal. Let mum go to to bed with the baby, or take the baby for a walk and bring them in for feeds.

Point out once the first weeks are over it becomes much easier. Inform and make it a choice.

"When I think of the people I know with babies, it's the ones who really wanted to breastfeed who did it. The ones who were a bit unsure, or half-hearted gave up. It's an matter of extreme determination."

If only it were this simple. How naive and disregarding of other posters experiences.

Information is not bullying. Facts are not bullying.

Until you're given those facts relentlessly when you already know, and for whatever reason they are not enough to outweigh how you end up feeding. Yet, you're still treated badly by 'better than you' individuals that think they should be repeating these facts to you.

Until those facts about benefits of BF are grossly over-exaggerated for an agenda.

Until the downsides of FF are also grossly exaggerated, to the point of creating entirely unnecessary fear, guilt and panic.

Providing facts is not bullying. An occasional leaflet about the benefits of breastfeeding is not bullying. Criticism for FF, and even (as someone else in this thread stated) posters including phrases like "I want what's best for my baby" implying that FF don't...THAT'S bullying.

That is true - I fed continually for the early days and that was what I expected to do - it also hurt like a mother fucker (initially) - Though I got the worst ever case of mastitis with baby 3 in the first week as she slept so much I couldn't feed her often enough! Good times! Breastfeeding is normal not easy and that should not be ignored for the convenience of the NHS - unrealistic expectations are going to be harmful.

Iseehotpeople, please could you tell me how I could have breastfed my 29 week twins when they were in NICU being tube-fed? I hand expressed and pumped as recommended while recovering from severe PE and an emergency section. The time I spent with the babies was limited in the early weeks due to my own ill health. I was prescribed tablets to increase my milk supply. Despite all of this I never produced more than 20mls milk on the pump and after five weeks my supply dried totally. Thanks for making mums like me feel even more shit than we already do.

newbian

Look at it this way...

If your friends started publicly posting on FB that anyone that had a c-section had seriously damaged their baby. If you were told by all sorts of people, everywhere you went, that your baby is going to have a low IQ and end up suffering a miserable life of obesity because of your c-section. If you were told that because you needed a c-section you 'didn't want what's best for your baby' and should have 'kept trying for a vaginal birth' and you're 'lazy for taking the easy way out', how would that make you feel over months and years?

I think what's quite galling when you've "failed" at breastfeeding is hearing others imply that you just didn't know enough or didn't try hard enough or weren't able to do it because you were seduced by Nestlé's evil plans, or whatever.

I knew that milk didn't come in for the first few days, I knew that it was still possible to produce enough milk for a large baby because some women feed twins etc etc. I was breastfed myself and was surrounded by friends and family who breastfed their children.

None of that helped me when DD simply refused to latch despite multiple midwives and breastfeeding supporters shoving my boob in her mouth.

It didn't help my best friend when, despite feeding her baby almost constantly, he was still not gaining weight eight weeks in.

Or the lady I met at a baby group who had such severe mastitis she ended up hospitalised.

Some babies are good feeders, others aren't. Some babies are good sleepers, others aren't. Some babies walk and talk earlier than others. It's just how it goes in the great baby lottery. If you succeeded at breastfeeding you may just have got lucky and for you and your baby it "clicked". That just doesn't happen for everyone.

I had a straightforward natural birth but would never have the audacity to claim it's because I tried harder or prepared better. There was a hell of a lot of luck involved!

JigsawBat Until those facts about benefits of BF are grossly over-exaggerated for an agenda.

What is the agenda? And which shadowy cabal is behind it?

Who makes money from BF?

Who makes money from FF?

I'm honestly amazed people think the one that doesn't involve sale of the product, is the one to be suspicious of.