To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

Sadiq Khan has it absolutely right. We cannot have a situation where people are frightened to find out whether someone they love has died because they are worried about the consequences. Giving amnesty to what in practice will be in the region of 20-30 people, some of whom will be dead or very seriously injured, cannot set any dangerous precedents or harm our country in any way.

Completely this.

100% there should be an amnesty.

But logistically, I'm not sure how to go about it. Having worked with asylum seekers and illegal migrants I know the complete desperation some people have which can lead to deception and extreme acts.

So yes, an amnesty but if we assume there are a very few people involved but far more come forward to make a claim they were living there - I'm not sure how to manage that. Not my problem though so I'd still support it.

Whoever the people were who questioned my loathing Khan: do I have to pretend I don't detest him just because he's a Muslim? I also loathe Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone (but wasn't old enough to vote when either of them were our mayor)

There's no easy way to deal with this

It's like the government want to release a higher number of deaths, but want that number to come from illegal activity.....hence asking for people to give the information

I have to ask this question how do people end up like the posters on this thread who have no empathy and understanding towards the victims of this fire?

I am an agnostic cultural Christian.

According to Cameron and Theresa May we live in a Christian country.

Christianity is based on compassion and forgiveness.

Difficult to live a lot of the time.

But to not have commission and forgiveness towards people who went through hell? IF not loosing their own children owning that their neighbour's dc died or was thrown out of a high rise?

What the hell? Is this trolling or something? I do not understand people saying rulz are rulz in this particular situation. Are you applying the same rulz are rulz to the council that ignore the rules?

Might a solution be a fixed term amnesty that gives a right to remain whilst an official application for asylum/residency is processed?

*knowing not owing

"There's no easy way to deal with this."

Actually, there is. You just have an amnesty, as proposed by the OP and Sadiq Khan.

I'd also like to pint out that it is Theresa May and Amber Rudd's responsibility as Home Secretary and former HS to have death with illegal immigration more fucking effectively.

But keep on blaming the most vulnerable humans in our society.

*To not have dealt with

Hackman that's the easy 'on the surface' way

I think that some on this thread are confusing Amnesty with Immunity and I wonder whether this is an explanation for some of the objections.

In these particular circs an Amnesty is the ONLY way we can hope to know who was there and who died.

Also, these people are human beings like us.
They bleed, and burn and mourn the same way we would.
If we were unlucky enough to live in /have family in, a 'death trap' flat.

Subletting needs dealing with. But this case is exceptional.

Agree with general sentiment of no.

These are separate issues and uk law should be respected and upheld

Think about what you would want to achieve when you are proposing an amnesty, and then consider the actual likely impact of an amnesty.

Is the goal to help with the identification of the victims and the provision of care? Several people on this thread, including those with immigration expertise, have said that the likely impact of an amnesty would be that lots of people who never set foot in Grenfell would be coming forward to claim they have resided there. So this might actually make it more difficult to accomplish correct identification.

Is there another way you could better reach that goal? Promising no immigration checks on those made homeless/in need of medical care etc sounds a priori plausible.

Can you explain the difference please squishy?

I've read a fair chunk of the thread, but not all of it, and I'm shocked at some of the very harsh and unfeeling veiws expressed.

To my mind, there SHOULD be an amnesty for survivors who escaped the building (or were not home at the time of the fire), and may be in hiding now and scared to come forward.

Why do I think that? They may have escaped the building but know the identity of family members or friend who have died. Maybe they are the only person who will be able to name that/those victims.

Maybe people who come forward to claim amnesty will have valuable information about the fire, how it progressed through the building, maybe important information about what when on in the building during renovation works, etc... it's possible that that information could impact the lives/safety of many thousands of people living in similar tower blocks.

Thinking there will now have to be a massive investigation all over the country into these council places.
Ball has been massively dropped re.illegals and subletting.Abysmal national security as a result.
Terrible ,horrible tragedy,but breaking the law is wrong.

No

localcheese Surely from a Christian perspective, the aim would be to try to understand why people have come to a different conclusion about what is the "right" thing to do in these circumstances, rather than to condemn people who have come to a different conclusion as having no compassion and being trolls.

We see too much of this these days, in my view. People can be good, caring, responsible people and still come to a different conclusion about the best course of action (Brexit, voting Labour or Tory, Grenfell, etc etc). Just trying to label people as uncaring because they are taking a different view is pretty crass.

None of these issues is simple, they are all complex and with short and long term implications. So people may disagree on the best action in good faith.

There is no difference, CrossWord.

Two different things. You shouldn't get away with a crime just because a terrible tragedy happened.

How will an amnesty help identify victims? Anyone could claim they were related to a victim or had sublet a flat to gain the 'benefits' of this amnesty. How would you be able to tell which of the hundreds of people who might come forward to get residency or a new flat was actually telling the truth?

There are lots of lessons to be learned from this fire including how housing is actually being used ie if there is subletting; overcrowding, etc. And everyone has a duty to try to create as clear a picture as possible about that because all risk assessments are built on certain assumptions.If those assumptions are wrong then people are put at risk.
But tbh all the arguing about whether there should be an amnesty or not, is just a distraction. It's an opportunity to create outrage about subletting or/and migrants/refugees and then appease it. We should be maintaining the focus on the real issues about lack of housing stock; about poor safety standards; about responsibility for fire safety moving from the fire brigade to the developer; about fire stations being cut - all of which are the fault of the government.

crossword

Voting Tory/Labour is one thing.

Allowing bodies/remains to go unclaimed because that person's family are scared to come forward is another.