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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

546 replies

brexitstolemyfuture · 22/06/2017 07:32

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 22/06/2017 11:09

"No. And I loathe Khan."

Why? What is it about the non white Muslim Mayor of London that you loathe?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 22/06/2017 11:09

Once again, for those who are not reading the thread. This is about the practical identification of who was in the block. If Theresa May, who is infamously hard on asylum seekers, supports this, I think some of you should reconsider, based on what is the right thing to do for those involved.

smilingmind · 22/06/2017 11:11

Have I accidentally opened the Daily Fail ?
The lack of humanity by many on this thread is shocking.

MotherOfBleach · 22/06/2017 11:12

Is it just me or is anyone else thinking the tide of public opinion has swung drastically since the new housing was announced?

squishysquirmy · 22/06/2017 11:13

Lady: To us, no it does not really seem like subletting. But in terms of a tenancy agreement, it IS technically subletting.
I too think that some people will try to lie to fraudulently take advantage of the situation. But in the case of those illegally subletting to someone else, not granting an amnesty makes it more likely they will lie, doesn't it? Part of the point of amnesties is that they can be used in such a way that they only apply to those who come forward willingly. So there is an incentive to those who have committed a crime (and anyone who illegally sublet out a grenfell appartment will be shitting themselves right now) to come forward and admit it, rather than run the risk of being found out anyway. Its a similar reason to why judges give more lenient sentences to those who plead guilty, than to those who plead innocent and are found guilty.

I also think that there are people on this thread expressing much harsher views than yourself, and what seems obvious to us is not obvious to them.

Friedlocalcheese · 22/06/2017 11:13

"No. And I loathe Khan."

Why do you fucking loathe the mayor of London? What about his governing style do you object to?

mothertruck3r · 22/06/2017 11:13

Terrible tragedy but people have committed a crime either by being here illegally or subletting. I don't want that behaviour rewarded. There are two different issues here - of course the victims should get help but that does not mean bypassing immigration laws that everyone else has to abide by.

If you normalise this then what happens is that it happens again and again and you create even more victims and exploitation in the future both exploitation of the legal system and exploitation of tenants by horrible immoral landlords.

squishysquirmy · 22/06/2017 11:16

"The question was - should all Grenfell illegal immigrants be given automatic amnesty.";
...Sorry to be pedantic, but that wasn't the question.

CrossWordSalad · 22/06/2017 11:16

because they are dead CrossWord? makes communicating with friends and family quite challenging. Also because if they are alive, perhaps they don't have friends or family. And because the authorities need to know how many lives were lost to be accountable

I don't understand your comment. The issue I was talking about is whether an amnesty is needed so that people can hear from their loved ones. If someone has died, whether they are offered an amnesty on their immigration status or not is not going to effect whether they come forward, is it?

And if someone doesn't have friends and family, then the idea that there needs to be an amnesty so that their f&f can hear that they are okay doesn't apply.

Your last sentence I agree with but it still doesn't mean that an amnesty would help, as the full details of who was living in the tower are not known in any case.

And there is nothing to stop people giving information to the authorities if they want to.

quidditys · 22/06/2017 11:16

If the amnesty means they can on this occasion come forward and get the support they need, then that's fair.

But what about after? An illegal immigrant wouldn't have the right documentation to get legal employment or access to benefits here, for example. I don't think they should be given permanent residency or citizenship just because they were part of this disaster, they should go through the same process other migrants here do.

Friedlocalcheese · 22/06/2017 11:16

"If you normalise this then what happens is that it happens again and again"

You mean if this amnesty is given each time a tower block burns down like candle and over 100 people due in a fire inferno due to fails by the council and government? mhm....................

Medeci · 22/06/2017 11:17

If Theresa May, who is infamously hard on asylum seekers, supports this, I think some of you should reconsider, based on what is the right thing to do for those involved.
Can't find anything about TM supporting the idea of an amnesty. Link??
I know she said people here illegally would not be penalised because of their immigration status, but that's not an amnesty.

superfluffyanimal · 22/06/2017 11:17

I think that people should do the right thing, in this case put their hand up and admit to living there or if they know of someone living there, under whatever circumstances they should speak out.

Maybe a further request for people to contact the help line should be made?

This is now a criminal investigation, where up to 79 people may have died. I think that number is too low but this type of behaviour is hindering the process.

People need to be accounted for or remains to be at least looked for.

user1480459555 · 22/06/2017 11:19

Someone "renting out a spare room" is not technically subletting although surely a council/social housing tenant is not meant to have spare bedrooms are they? Is that not what the bedroom tax is about?

Of course Theresa May agrees with an amnesty. She thinks it will make her look good when at the moment she is, on the whole, disliked

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2017 11:19

"Terrible tragedy but people have committed a crime either by being here illegally or subletting. I don't want that behaviour rewarded."

Jesus fucking wept.

CrossWordSalad · 22/06/2017 11:20

Bertrand Are people allowed to have negative opinions about "non white Muslim" politicians in your world?

MsSusanStoHelit · 22/06/2017 11:21

"Also, people can come forward. We are a humane society. No-one will be mistreated."

Yeah, the posts on this thread are really proving that we're humane, aren't they? Not a shred of empathy from some of you, just Daily Heil comments section bitterness.

We should be falling over ourselves to support residents and loved ones of the lost residents after what we did to them with our 'humane' society.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2017 11:23

"I think that people should do the right thing, "

So do l. How about the Council and the Government start.......

Friedlocalcheese · 22/06/2017 11:24

" I don't think they should be given permanent residency or citizenship just because they were part of this disaster, they should go through the same process other migrants here do."

......and all the other 'tough love' posts saying Grenfall residents shouldn't be given amnesty 'give 'em an inch' let's hope that none of you will ever experience such hell and rely on the good will and understanding of fellow people. I mean throwing babies and toddler from a burning really should NOT mean that they should be treated in a humane way, of course not.

This thread reminds me so of The Hunger Games.

People are envious of victims of a deadly fire. It's like people who are envious of people who are diagnosed with cancer because they get 'special testament' and experience kindness.

So fucking dark.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2017 11:24

"Bertrand Are people allowed to have negative opinions about "non white Muslim" politicians in your world?"

Yep.

Wonders71 · 22/06/2017 11:26

No the subletees must be delt with awful situation!!

CrossWordSalad · 22/06/2017 11:31

Glad to hear it Bertrand. It would be worrying if some politicians couldn't be critised without people being subtly accused of racism or bigotry on no evidence.

rinabean · 22/06/2017 11:31

How would it possibly change how people act in the future unless you think this is going to be a regular occurrence, and if you think it's going to be a regular occurrence, is that not the bigger fucking problem?

What the hell is this thread? Fucking illegal immigrants, coming over here and dying in OUR fires

I can't imagine the callousness. I really can't! It doesn't matter what you think of any of these crimes, surely not even someone doing all of them means we should have remains buried without names, or people gone absolutely missing, forever, when someone knows who they were but is afraid to come forwards

It's funny there was a thread on here the other day about the killers in prison who brag to their victims' families that they know where the body is/what happened to it but refuse to say. Most people think that that is very evil. Why doesn't it apply here? It's obscene to think that there are remains that could be identified and missing people that could be named but we'll let them go nameless and unknown unless their friends and family want to be fined/imprisoned/deported. Fucking obscene

Whiterabbitears · 22/06/2017 11:32

This thread has really shocked me, I can't believe some of the harsh views here. Of course sub letting is wrong and illegal I don't think anyone is condoning that. Have some of you forgotten the sight of that tower ablaze? The stories of children being thrown from the higher floors to save their lives? Desperate phone calls from people knowing they were going to burn to death? Someone mentioned upthread HANDWRINGING yes if that were my family member I would be fucking handwringing knowing this could have been prevented.

CrossWordSalad · 22/06/2017 11:35

We should be falling over ourselves to support residents and loved ones of the lost residents after what we did to them with our 'humane' society

Susan Can you explain your thinking a bit more? Are we all responsible for the fire? If so, how? What makes us responsible? Is it just by being part of our society? I am genuinelly interested in your point of view as I think the issue of responsibility (who has it, who doesn't, etc) is very interesting.