To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

Hi folks,

We've had a lot of reports from MNers who are finding some of the posts on this thread very insensitive in light of the recent tragic events.
While we really don't want to stifle discussion, we do ask that you are mindful of this when posting; we also ask that you avoid speculation at this stage.

My apologies but I haven't caught up with the news the last few days. When did it come to light that Grenfell residents had links with terror organisations?

Obviously, we're not just assuming they do because they're brown. That would make us bigoted idiots and Fluffy has already made it clear that we are not bigoted idiots.

Like you said, it is a a separate issue from the fire victims. So why are you bringing the issue of terrorism and extremism onto this thread? There is absolutely no evidence, nor even anything to suggest that any of the residents of Grenfell "hate the very country they chose to come to", nor that they are "dangerous". Trying to divert a conversation about victims of a fire into an opportunity to have a pop at Islam does come across as bigoted, I'm afraid.

Do many of the people who have posted ignorant views about the people who lived in Grenfell even live in the vicinity?

I've noticed at least one person who I know to live many miles away expressing her predictably small minded views. I'm sure there are others.

I live in Westminster, the borough next door to Kensington and Chelsea. Don't worry about us. These boroughs are the richest in the UK and were always able to call upon the help of other London boroughs in an emergency and now have government backing it.

If somewhere as rich as K&C say they can't cope then there are a lot questions for the rest of you living in other local authorities should ask before you start bitching about illegals and sub letting.

"Why don't the people who are so worried about setting precedents think about that the next time they want to book a hotel room?"

Indeed, why are "precedents" only a problem when it comes to helping people of this particular incident?
There are vile people in the world who do dangerous, stupid things if they think they can gain from it, I am not naive. But this shouldn't stop us helping those who need and deserve help. If you extend the logic, then the Make A Wish foundation is terribly irresponsible as the "precedents" it sets might encourage Munchausens by Proxy and all insurance should be banned because it might encourage people to destroy their own property. What if someone was so desperate to meet the queen and get free concert tickets that they stage a fake suicide bomb?

The victims of this fire are in the position they are because the authorities that held a duty of care to the residents in that block failed them miserably. It is almost certain that in many cases those failings constitute major crimes. Please don't let us lose sight of that amongst all the unsubstantiated nonsense about war criminals and extremists.

Sadly this fire has been hijacked by people of all extreme political persuasions. There have been posters spouting nonsense on MN about corrupt firefighters, conspiracy theories and trying to drum up civil unrest. There have been some rather unfeeling comments on this thread about the victims.

But the discussion here about an amnesty has been interesting because it does raise issues of perceived fairness and associated problems of trying to do the right thing.

Puzzledandpissedoff Fri 23-Jun-17 13:13:28

But a number of posts are racist / Islamaphobic and contrary to Talk guidelines

If they are, I'm sure they'll be deleted in due course

Squirmy I have no idea who wrote the first line but that was Puzzled reply to it. I clearly did not link the fire victims and terrorists. I simply quoted someone who wrote the first line and then answered the OP, in that no, people here illegally should not be allowed to stay, as horrific and tragic as the fire was it is not the same issue as staying in a country illegally.

actually quite a lot of care is free including, interestingly, care for some people who have been refused asylum.

GP surgeries turn people away but they're not supposed to.

The outlandish conspiracy theories piss me off too Lady. Especially the ones that imply collusion from huge numbers of the emergency services. Sadly, there will always be some conspiracy theories circulating after something like this, but I do think it is important to avoid adding fuel to those theories. Which is why I hope that the investigation, compensation and any amnesty will be done in as transparent and consistent a way as possible.

the authorities that held a duty of care to the residents in that block failed them

I think it definitely needs looking into and shouldn't be sidetracked into blind alley's such as illegal immigrant status and sub letting squishy.

Proud of my deletion (for quoting a post later deleted, in order to challenge it).

And if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

thekandcfoundation.com/

I have donated to cancel out all the bile on here. They will match your donation and add gift aid.

ps absolutely not virtue signalling

Det Chief Supt McCormack mentioned 999 calls that lasted an hour or more between desperate people in Grenfell Tower and emergency staff. These were 999 calls where the operator is supposed to get off the line asap. I can only imagine the contact that went on between them and people facing the most terrible death.

Think about how you'd have felt if you'd got one of those calls and then wonder if you still thought the priority was to go after sub-lettees and illegal immigrants.

It is almost certain that in many cases those failings constitute major crimes.

Just listened to the news. The Met is looking into that right now squishy

By the way MNHQ, the posts are insensitive full stop. They aren't insensitive just because of recent events. They are insensitive despite recent events.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-police-manslaughter-charges-documents-seized-detective-superintendent-a7804266.html

(Detective Superintendent) Ms McCormack said "Grenfell Tower's cladding, tiles and insulation all failed safety tests carried out as part of the investigation"

I admit I'm confused now ... are these "tiles" and "insulation" an integral part of the cladding, or is this something completely separate, maybe even from a different supplier? It's just that I'm wondering exactly how many failures there were in checking issues around this building ...

As I understand it, the cladding has a layer of (should be fire retardant) insulation between it and the old concrete walls.

So discussion was held immediately after the fire that the cladding should have been OK really even if combustible because the insulation material shouldn't have been flammable...oh.

The tiles in one article seem to be another way of describing the cladding : in other words ,they are the tiley bit of the cladding.

The whole lot of it : highly combustible.

Unbelievable. But not all that surprising.

Thanks, Piggy - that makes a lot of sense. It absolutely doesn't make what happened any better, but I suppose that where the cladding's concerned, it at least means there's one supplier/fitter involved instead of several (which might have slowed down enquiries still more)

It seems questions are now being asked as to whether what was installed is what the building's owners actually ordered ...

The Guardian had a source very early on that was able to quote exactly when a decision was made to change the order form one brand to its cheaper version : bit like having a Pepsi Max rather than Diet Pepsi : same brand , different make up.

The crucial difference being fire safety.

Not sure what decisions were made on insulation which seems to have tougher regulations. This could be where the law really ahs been broken.

Useful article here about the complex web of companies involved in the Grenfell "refurb" www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/long-builder-chain-for-grenfell-a-safety-and-accountability-issue