To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

yy about exceptions being built into the legal system already:
The phrase "not in the public interest" springs to mind.

I'm actually really shocked that so many people on here are against an amnesty.

Contrarianism. Second option bias.

People like to make themselves feel smarter by going against the general trend.

I guess lots of MNers are fed up of feeling sympathy, and want to try a bit of armchair-lashing-out.

It reflects incredibly poorly on some posters who I previously had a lot of time for.

Hang on. So the government is giving them money, when anyone else who has their house burn down would have to use, you know, insurance.

Now you want them to get off without punishment for committing crimes other people are punished for daily?

If your house was burnt down because your landlord was negligent, your landlord's insurance would pay DonutCone. And they would (or should) go to jail.

without punishment

How can you tap out those words.

They have suffered more than you could ever imagine. And you want to destroy the last shred of the life they've clung to.

'Go identify your dead'

How? by sifting through the ashes hoping to find a recognisable remanent?

Hang on. So the government is giving them money, when anyone else who has their house burn down would have to use, you know, insurance.

Because the Government and the Council fucked up. Plus renters only really need contents insurance, because they y'know don't actually own the property so the insurance would not rehome them.

Some people

I think actually some people are just a bit ignorant about how the immigration process works:

Exceptions are made ALL THE TIME. The system includes the facility to make emergency exceptions. No laws need to be changed, nothing is getting "thrown out the window". Everybody getting their knickers in a twist about a bureaucracy having the ability to exercise, gasp, human judgement and compassion - just stop. You are making a fool of yourself. We make exceptions every damn day. This is not the first time, it won't be the last.

So all the people who illegally sublet their flats (talking landlords not tennants here) should be granted an amnesty? And perhaps even be given a new flat so they can do it again? Just no.

An "average" of 2 people die in a housefire in the UK each day. Interesting, thread this as I was berated on another thread for saying I had heard a lawyer saying in an interview that she worked in an office near the site of this terrible fire, gave both her and thecompany name, saying they were willing to give free legal help, but, people were not coming forward for help because of their "emigration status"

erm, excuse me but posters are complaining that people can't come forward to claim their dead for fear of their illegal status coming to light.

I put that it is a moral choice, nothing is stopping them help authorities get an idea of names and numbers. They could choose to step up. They can equally choose not to but they cannot put that anyone is preventing them.

one of the reasons that subletting a council property causes problems is because when there is any sort of incident, like this but could be others like a broken gas main/toxic fumes etc - there is no real idea of how many people are involved, how many are safe and how many are not. it puts the lives of firefighters at risk because they then don't know how many are in the house, street or building.

the rules on overcrowding get ignored and they are there not just for decency reasons in terms of people sharing rooms but because over crowding causes a fire risk. why? because 4 people in a property have less electrical devices and things plugged in than 10 and the more people the more overloaded the system becomes.

I dealt with the aftermath of fires in HMO's in London only a couple but I still remember the smell after all these years.

what has happened is horrific but we need to see the response as a staged process.

first off who was in there and how many with any amnesty that is necessary to find this out. second, if the flat is sublet then I want to see the original tenants who did this in prison, not fined or slapped on the wrist but locked away to send a clear signal of how dangerous this is.

It is far far too easy for tenants to sublet council properties and this needs to be very much tougher. but now is not the time to think about this only to make sure that it does happen in the very near future.

No - completely separate issues and agree with:

Notknownatthisaddress - And the sooner KHAN is replaced as London Mayor, the better.

Khan has done nothing of consequence since becoming mayor except photo bomb and support Corbyn when he should have been getting on with the job.

They are two separate issues, don't be obtuse.

If I have cancer and kill someone they don't forget the murder because I'm ill do they?

"poor buggers"

"illegal lifestyle"

Well I never

People who show such little humanity don't normally have a platform in RL only on the Internet because normal people in RL don't like spending time face-to-face with those who are devoid of any empathy and basic human decency.

It always strikes me that the views of people like Girl on fire fit better in places like Saudi Arabia than in the UK.

"So all the people who illegally sublet their flats (talking landlords not tennants here) should be granted an amnesty? And perhaps even be given a new flat so they can do it again? Just no."
Not those who did the subletting and did not live at the building as their behaviour contributed to the problem and they were not directly affected by the fire as they didn't live there. But people who did get caught up in the fire lost loved ones and all their possessions should be given amnesty.

tonydanza I see a lot of people these days who seem to be really desperate to show off how unsympathetic they are to everything . It's so odd to me. Like, what are you trying to prove?

There is a problem if someone who was illegally subletting their flat is getting another flat. So people died in the flat they were illegally renting out. Yet they are not only safe and pocketing money, but get a new flat too. No. Just no.

They must be granted an amnesty barbarian otherwise we may not know who all of the deceased are.

donutcone The two issues aren't really separate though.

Do you really think it is fair that some families will never know what happened to their relatives because they are too scared to come forward because they were there illegally?

To me, that thought is utterly horrifying.

*They are two separate issues, don't be obtuse.

If I have cancer and kill someone they don't forget the murder because I'm ill do they?*

So now you're comparing subletting to murder after your first post was bollocks?

Okay then.

It appears (though I don't yet know if it has been confirmed) that some of the dead had to make the agonising choice between throwing their babies out of the window or letting their little lungs fill with toxic, black smoke before their small bodies were burnt beyond all recognition. Many of the survivors lost their loved ones in the confusion and the smoke, and will have to live forever with the (completely misplaced) guilt that they could not save them. Many survivors are suffering serious, life changing burns and other injuries, and have a very painful recovery ahead of them, if they recover at all. Even those who got out with their families will be traumatised, homeless, and bereaved of their neighbours.

.....But yeah, they're all jammy sods because they might not be adequately punished for benefit fraud, or for having a lodger.

Of course not Kitten. Identifying as in reporting to the authorities who you are, who you lived with and who is missing. Or, if you didn't live yhere but knew those who did but are missing- you could assist the authorities by providing this information, probably anonymously.

"If I have cancer and kill someone they don't forget the murder because I'm ill do they?"

Who is talking about murder? You are distorting the facts, which is not helpful.

Yes YABU.

What happened was horrific but immigration laws should be abided by

"Do you really think it is fair that some families will never know what happened to their relatives because they are too scared to come forward because they were there illegally?"

^ This in SPADES.

Fucking Hell.