to ask if I'm being cruel to my children?

[Busybecca]

We have two daughters, aged 4 and 3. DH and I have fallen out tonight after he told me he thought I was cruel to the girls. DH and I differ in that I want to encourage the girls to be independent and he likes to baby them.

He works four days per week 9-5 so he isn't trying to make up for his absence or anything, but it's becoming unbearable when the four of us are together and I think our different approaches are totally unfair on and confusing to the children.

DH will hand feed them. Lift them on and off the toilet and wipe their bums. Put their shoes and clothes on and take them off for them. Put their rubbish in the bin for them. He pretty much does what they say, when they say it or else they're crying and whinging.

DD1 today went on the trampoline at the bottom of the garden then called to be lifted down. I called "use the ladder" but DH went running down the garden to lift her down Later he was upstairs and she came inside and called up to him to come and take her shoes off for her and he did! At tea time I called up to DD2 that tea was ready and she called DH to carry her downstairs, which he did. I asked her to wash her hands and she called him to turn the tap on for her, then to get the soap out for her, then to pass her the towel.

When it's just me and the girls they are fully capable of doing all of the above for themselves and they are happy to do so. When he is here they're whiny, bossy and demanding and I don't enjoy family time at all because of that. They don't listen to DH if he asks them to do anything, they just order him around.

Tonight DD1 said she needed a tissue. She was standing outside the bathroom door, I was washing up and DH was upstairs. I replied 'there's tissue in the bathroom.' She started calling to DH to get her a tissue and Lo and behold he came running downstairs to do so. Then he went in the shower and she sneezed again and was calling at him to fetch her a tissue. I told her she was more than capable of getting it herself and that he couldn't hear her because he was in the shower. She started screaming and crying for him to do it now and after a couple of minutes he got out of the shower to see what the matter was - hence me being called cruel for not getting her a tissue.

It's getting to the stage where they're a total pain in the arse on his first day back to work and I have to 'reset' them to realise they're capable of everything above. The following day they're back to normal and much happier but still DH will go back to being at their beck and call in the evening which just leads to tantrum after tantrum.

AIBU to think we can't go on like this or am I indeed cruel?

YANBU but imo the most important thing is having a United front. However you parent, you should both approach it in the same way. Easier said than done I know, but maybe a heart to heart and a compromise is in order? X

At what point does your DH teach them independence? Ask him - at what age will he stop being at their beck and call: 5? 6? 8? 10?

Your DH is being a twat by the way.

Keep praising your girls every time they do something for themselves, tell them how grown up they are and how proud you are of them. They will soon learn where the praise they crave comes from.

I now have three teenagers and I am so glad that I haven't babied them and that they are able to wipe their own bums, get their own tissues, get off the trampoline for themselves as well as reading train timetables, sorting out their own revision schedules and making their own packed lunches. Serious eye-rolling going on here!

Actually, he's emotionally abusing them. Not allowing children independence is almost as bad as neglect. Think Rapunzel! My dd wiped her own bottom from around eighteen months and I'd expect a child to be doing the rest of it at three.

Hmm, I am in the minority here but 3 and 4 is very young. I would help them down from the trampoline in case they fell, I would wipe their bottoms in case they didn't do it properly, and I still get my 7 year old tissues when she does a big sneeze! I guess my partner and I both parent like your partner so I am seeing things from his point of view. They have years ahead of them to be independent and looking after themselves. It sounds like he is very caring and nothing they need is too much trouble for him, which is how my partner and I both are. It is a shame you are both on different pages, but I don't think he is wrong and you are right, or vice versa. Maybe see it as best of both worlds- you are teaching them new skills and he is making them feel protected and secure. With a different perspective you could actually be complimenting each other rather than being locked in a battle of one person's approach being better than the other persons.

Your husband is making a very big rod for both of your backs

BFFs 2 girls were like this with their Dad. They still haven't quite grown out of it now they are both early 20's.

You say they are capable of doing all these things by themselves so you should n' t really have nothing to worry about. When they are at preschool they are doing those things themselves and they will do at school. Your children perhaps just like the attention their dad gives them. Your husband just needs to back down a bit and not run to their beck and call every minute. It's ok to help and encourage them as they are only 3 & 4,but to say NO once in a while will benefit all of you. Just talk it over with him.

Not read the whole thread but your DH does sound like an idiot.

What is he like the rest of the time?

Show him this. He is impeding their development, and their ability to become confident, resourceful children and adults. www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/news/a43001/kids-who-do-chores-are-more-successful/

Nope you definitely aren't being cruel. I had a similar problem with my DH and our DD aged 4. DS is 8 so DD is the "baby" and DH is soft on her to the extent that DS notices. DD can do no wrong and gets whatever she wants from him. The important part to explain to your DH is that when he isn't there your DCs do these things by themselves. They have obviously clocked onto the fact he will do whatever they ask. I would just explain to him that they are growing up and whilst you wouldn't mind him doing some things for them, doing everything they ask when they have no issues doing it themselves when he isn't there is making it worse for both of you. Just be strong and explain that of course if they couldn't do these things you would try to help them just like he does but they DO know how to do these things.

Using the toilet by themselves at 3 - yes, and especially since toilets in nursery and primary schools tend to be mini toilets. Wiping after a poo - not necessarily.
The OP hasn't stated whether there is a step stool for the girls to use at home so they can get onto the seat easily. Maybe there should be?

Dressing themselves every day or even some days at 2 - no. That is not average, or a developmental milestone parents should be aiming for. 2 yos can take clothes off but most cannot put them on by themselves, properly or consistently or within a reasonable amount of time. It is too much to ask a 2 yo to do for him or herself.
For most children, age 4-5 is the point where dressing themselves can be expected, perhaps with help for buttons or distinguishing back from front. They are happy to be able to do this at age 4-5 with encouragement and with help and patience if they run into a difficult element of the process.

Parents can begin to let them have a go at it when they are 3 but with no expectation that once they start to get the odd item on by themselves that that is it for the rest of their lives. They are still going to need help sometimes.

At age 2 you can expect collaboration in dressing from your toddler. To teach dressing skills you can do all but the last element of the skill and the toddler finishes off the task. When that is mastered, you let the toddler have a go at the second last step and so on. For example, first you pull socks on all the way over the heel and the toddler pulls them straight up their leg, next you pull them as far as the heel and the toddler negotiates that, etc.

I think the suggestion of showing him what they are expected to do before they go to Reception is a good one. That depersonalizes it as you aren't arguing over what they can and can't do, but have a list of what they need to be able to do.

Prioritize the list (pick the thing you find most annoying) and then work together to ensure your DC can do it. When confronted with a huge list your DH will probably be very glad to find he doesn't need to worry about fetching tissues when he's faced with the rigors of teaching table manners, changing clothes, and tying shoelaces.

Teachers and nursery and ultimately your children and husband (when he realises what a sucker he's being) will thank you for it. Carry on and ask him how he thinks they're going to cope at school when the teacher doesn't pander to their every whim!

Laughing my head off at some of the posts on here claiming he is emotionally abusing them! For gods sake get a grip! He like to pander, you don't. Meet in the flipping middle, that's what parenting is about. How lucky are your kids that they have two parents that love them!

Am I the only person who thinks that if these children aren't pulled up for behaving so rudely, that's going to spoil them just as much as dad doing too much for them? The real problem to me is two parents on completely different pages, and I personally don't think that the OP is right with everything she expects of her DC, especially the 3 year old. We have helped DD with many of these things at a much older age that this and she isn't spoilt, and is considered by all her teachers to be a delight (their words).

I know on MN people expect their DC to make a 3 course meal by the time they start school, but most parents I know in RL help their DC with most of this stuff.

Oh gosh you need to sort this out though I don't know how. I know of two girls from different families (now early 20s) who were waited on hand and foot. They were both bright, intelligent children but were completely destroyed by appalling parenting.

e.g. 11 year old girl (girl1) expecting to have her shoes put on her by her mother
e.g. 14 year old girl (girl2) stamping on the floor so her father would bring her a cup of tea. He also had to wash her or she wouldn't wash.

They both did poorly in school despite high IQ and have dropped out of education.

One of the young women (girl1) is now in a psychiatric unit and will probably never lead a normal life. She has just been diagnosed with BPD.

Girl2 is living in a bed sit (after her mother finally threw her out) where she still won't wash unless her father comes and escorts her to the bathroom. She also won't go to the shops to get food or cook unless someone is with her and she won't do anything (go to the GP, etc) without someone with her.

I despair of either of them ever leading a normal life.

You do things for your children when they are unable and to teach them. Why pander to their wants when they are more than capable themselves? What benefit is that to anyone?

I absolutely agree RiverTam. The rudeness and screaming at the dad is the problem here and they should not be getting away with it.The OP needs to intervene when they behave like that, since the children have identified her as the leader in the home.

His job, and yours, is to help your girls realise their potential. Loving them is wonderful; interacting with them is priceless... but being their doormat is harmful. He is their dad and he should be encouraging them to learn and grow.

Perhaps he could start with, "Let's do that together", then withdraw slowly.

The dad isn't just helping with things the kids need help with though is he? He's carrying a 4 yr old all around the house because she tells him he has to and is running downstairs out of the shower to get his child a tissue when they are stood right next to them. How can anyone can suggest that is a normal or healthy way to behave. You can't blame the 3 and 4 yr old for trying it on. Their dad has taught them a very successful way to get what they want.

It's not the helping them that's the problem is it though? He is basically letting them treat him badly. I have been known to give my 5 yo an 'extra' wipe if he needs it but I don't like overly helpless behaviour such as the OP illustrates.
In old fashioned terms he is spoiling them. The OP can see this, and he can't.
It's not emotional abuse really but it will not contribute to raising nice older children.