to ask if I'm being cruel to my children?

[Busybecca]

We have two daughters, aged 4 and 3. DH and I have fallen out tonight after he told me he thought I was cruel to the girls. DH and I differ in that I want to encourage the girls to be independent and he likes to baby them.

He works four days per week 9-5 so he isn't trying to make up for his absence or anything, but it's becoming unbearable when the four of us are together and I think our different approaches are totally unfair on and confusing to the children.

DH will hand feed them. Lift them on and off the toilet and wipe their bums. Put their shoes and clothes on and take them off for them. Put their rubbish in the bin for them. He pretty much does what they say, when they say it or else they're crying and whinging.

DD1 today went on the trampoline at the bottom of the garden then called to be lifted down. I called "use the ladder" but DH went running down the garden to lift her down Later he was upstairs and she came inside and called up to him to come and take her shoes off for her and he did! At tea time I called up to DD2 that tea was ready and she called DH to carry her downstairs, which he did. I asked her to wash her hands and she called him to turn the tap on for her, then to get the soap out for her, then to pass her the towel.

When it's just me and the girls they are fully capable of doing all of the above for themselves and they are happy to do so. When he is here they're whiny, bossy and demanding and I don't enjoy family time at all because of that. They don't listen to DH if he asks them to do anything, they just order him around.

Tonight DD1 said she needed a tissue. She was standing outside the bathroom door, I was washing up and DH was upstairs. I replied 'there's tissue in the bathroom.' She started calling to DH to get her a tissue and Lo and behold he came running downstairs to do so. Then he went in the shower and she sneezed again and was calling at him to fetch her a tissue. I told her she was more than capable of getting it herself and that he couldn't hear her because he was in the shower. She started screaming and crying for him to do it now and after a couple of minutes he got out of the shower to see what the matter was - hence me being called cruel for not getting her a tissue.

It's getting to the stage where they're a total pain in the arse on his first day back to work and I have to 'reset' them to realise they're capable of everything above. The following day they're back to normal and much happier but still DH will go back to being at their beck and call in the evening which just leads to tantrum after tantrum.

AIBU to think we can't go on like this or am I indeed cruel?

[BewareOfDragons]

Your husband needs parenting classes asap. He is going to ruin your children and make them incredibly unlikable by their peers, other grown ups etc if they think the world is supposed to wait on them hand and foot when they are perfectly capable of helping themselves.

I work in a primary school, and believe me, it's easy to pick out the children who have their (usually) mummy, but sometimes both parents, do every little thing for them, are over protected, over babied ... they are a pain in the ass, and so are their parents.And they seriously struggle with friendships as they are so spoiled, they can't cope with the reality that they're not more important than the other children in the class!

He has got to stop.

[DJBaggySmalls]

Its cruel to spoil kids. No one like spoiled people. Its cruel to deprive people of the desire to learn new skills. But IDK how you should tackle this as you both have such different parenting styles.

[GreenTulips]

I agree

You can definately tell the attention seeking children who want everything immediately and can't do things for themselves - it'll be a steep learning curve and very unhappy children

[emmyrose2000]

Your DH is the one being cruel, and also very selfish.

He's denying them the chance to learn basic life skills. If he also thinks it's okay for them to be whiny etc, he's also setting them up to be disliked by other people, especially their peers at school.

Why would he want to set his kids up for failure? No loving parent would want that surely?

[Busybecca]

Dressing them when they've been able to dress themselves for years isn't 'interacting' with them It's undermining both their self confidence and me.

[Ceto]

I point out to him that they do all these things independently and without fuss when he isn't here (and at nursery and school) so surely he'd prefer if they could do it when he's here too so he could enjoy them instead of running around after them all the time

So what's his response to that? Does he think the nursery and school staff are also being cruel in making them learn independence?

[PerspicaciaTick]

Why is he doing this?
Does he think they are incapable (which doesn't say much for his opinion of his children)?
Is he trying to buy their love by doing stuff for them?
Is he conducting an experiment on why lifeskills are unnecessary?
Is he competing with the OP (in a game in which she isn't even participating) to see who can win the Best Parent Award?
Does he think that girls are fragile, slightly dim, flowers?

Wouldn't he have much more fun teaching them to do stuff and seeing them brimming with pride when they master a new skill that he has helped them learn?

[Crumbs1]

Parents are allowed to do,things slightly differently. They do need to learn independence and you sound like you are doing that well. They also need to experience early dependency in order to feel secure in later life. He's doing that quite well. Children understand different people react and do things differently without coming to harm. It used to be called wrapping your father around your little finger. There is a view girls need to learn about relationships with men from their fathers - how nice theirs is kind, attentive and loving.
Give him a break, accept your differences are both of benefit to the children and enjoy what sounds like a lovely, normal, family life.

[Ceebs85]

YANBU he's damaging them and you run the risk of ending up with two completely spoilt young girls who are completely lazy and entitled! Stand your ground, sounds like he wants them to remain babies but he needs to accept his role is to enable independence - they won't love him any less but it needs to be completely consistent!

[PerspicaciaTick]

Give him a break, accept your differences are both of benefit to the children and enjoy what sounds like a lovely, normal, family life.

But he is the one calling the OP cruel when she does stuff different to him. Why does he need to be given a break?

[donquixotedelamancha]

Ditto to he's being cruel, not you.

That said, you are both the parents and you have to get on the same page- which will mean compromises on both sides. This needs thrashing out and once you have some balanced ground rules set, you both need to stick to them.

[donquixotedelamancha]

"A father insisting on wiping a 4 yo's bum when she's perfectly capable of doing it herself, would raise safeguarding alarm bells if anyone at school knew that."

Don't be silly.

[Titterofwit]

I would film them doing by themselves all of the things he runs to do for them. Show him how they manage when hes not around. They are still only little so the is a lot daddy is needed for .Help him see that he doesnt need to run after them for these reasons but there are other reasons he is needed

[LovingLola]

Dressing them when they've been able to dress themselves for years isn't 'interacting' with them

They are 3 and 4 years old. How many years can they have been dressing themselves for????
There was another thread on MN earlier where a poster was stressing about having to dress her 4 year old ds before school - she didn't get a shedload of posts telling her how damaging she is being to her son.

[donquixotedelamancha]

"men can't win on here, can they mostly, they're neglectful abusers with partners who should LTB this one interacts with his kids, and he's still rounded on."

We fellas can win fine- this isn't a sexism issue. Lots of mums I know mollycoddle their kids. My wife would do so if left to her own devices. It's a difference in parenting style that just needs haggling out.

[CatchIt]

Yabu about the bum wiping imo, I don't think 3 & 4 yo children can wipe their bums properly. My dd is 4 (nearly 5) and she's only just started wiping her bum herself though I do a bum check because if it's an Alan Smearer it just gets wiped up her bum.

YANBU about the rest. If he was my dh I'd ltb get him to do everything for me too. Tell him to get you a tissue/loo paper/wipe your. Um and see how cruel he finds that.

[NapQueen]

He fulfils their requests because it satiates his egi. He is needed. He is handy. He is "im stuck lets call on Daddy".

No way would I pander to dcs like your dh does.

[LorLorr2]

Have you had proper, sit-down chats about it where you've explained that from your point of view you are setting them up for life by giving them independence and allowing them to develop healthily?
If it turns out he's just sad to see his girls aren't his babies any more, maybe they could have a cheesey 'cuddle time' kinda thing in the day where he sets time aside to read books to them and snuggle up so that he can then be firmer with them the rest of the time without feeling like he never shows his love.
There's even the option of counselling if you are getting frustrated at each other and need to get things off your chest in a constructive way then move on with a good shared vision (hopefully).

Sounds a bit bananas but you could even show him an episode of Supernanny?

[PyongyangKipperbang]

'I want Dadeeeee!!"



Thankfully, Dadeeeeee has finally realised that babying her makes more work for him yet I am still the bad guy somehow

[DangerMouse17]

A father wiping his own child's bottom is a "safeguarding concern"

What an odd comment peaface

Completely agree with you OP though. He is making a rod for his own back and he needs to nip this in the budget pronto!

[PerspicaciaTick]

At the moment when DC1 calls to be helped down from the trampoline he runs and scoops them up, solves their problem for them.
If he went out and said "How about you try the ladder, I'm here to make sure you don't fall. Where do you think your foot should go? That's right. Can you hold the handle? Wow, well done DC1 you are getting really good at using the ladder" he would still be helping his child and interacting but she would be learning that she is a capable person and how to solve problems for herself. Or she would get bored and just climb the ladder on her own.

[Busybecca]

The thing he doesn't seem to understand is that they're just using him. If they are hurt, worried, want to play etc - they want me and he will be firmly told to go away. He seems to think they'll love him more for doing everything they say but it's actually having the opposite effect as they associate him being home with lots of tears and moaning from one another.

They've been able to dress themselves rinse they were 2.5. crumbs I wouldn't say they're learning that he's nice, loving and attentive. I'd say they're learning he's a mug who will do whatever they say, however they behave and however they treat him and that he's incapable of controlling them because they expect him to listen to them but disregard anythinghe says in return.

[Ellieboolou27]

Agree with you crumbs
cruel, damaging them, and one person actually mentioned a safeguarding issue for bum wiping a 3 yo! Get a grip!

It's about balance and your dh needs help finding it, I bet if he was to read the responses on here he'd be devastated.

He is being overly kind, a bit of a walkover but, it's his parenting style and he will learn the hard way. parenting doesn't come with a certain rule book. I remember my dad barking orders about doing it myself, whilst mum secretly helped me do up my buttons, guess who I'm closer to.
Anyone would think the poor man is beating and ignoring them judging by the responses.

[Busybecca]

There is no problem though, if he wasn't here she'd be up and down the ladder without a word to me. She's just testing her power over him, he's complying and I'm left to deal with the tears if she does it when he's not here and I tell her she can't use the trampoline if she claims to be unable to get up and down by herself.

[Hidingtonothing]

OP have you tried approaching it with him from the perspective that it won't be long before they're both at school and that it's your job as parents to prepare them for that? Might he be more receptive to that approach than you pointing out that it's not how you do things when he's not around?

I think sometimes people dig their heels in when they're told they're doing something 'wrong' so am just wondering whether expressing it as a concern about how they will cope at school might make him more receptive to your point of view.

I would speak to him at an entirely separate time from when this situation actually arises (so not straight after he's done something for them you don't agree with) and put it forward as a concern about preparing them for school rather than a direct criticism of him.