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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to be so angry with the tory government regarding grenfell

574 replies

GreenTreesWithLeaves · 16/06/2017 20:47

Grenfell should not have happened. Austerity, cost cutting, ignoring the poor, helping the rich get richer, all this led to the horrific circumstances.

Tory response? Theresa May didnt even speak to the survivor residents. A tory minister cited security reasons, yet the Queen managed to come out and talk to the residents without issue.

Tories have form for voting against safety issues in housing. All to benefit the wealthy. It is utterly shameful that these are the people that run our country, who care only for the rich.

OP posts:
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Catminion · 17/06/2017 08:19

I have lived in North Kensington all my life. Successive Tory council have shown their utter contempt for housing the poor and social housing residents over the years. I can remember the struggle to save homes from demolition when Westway was built. Right up to the publicised struggles that Grenfell and Trellick residents (among others) have had with the council over the years.

The council have made no secret of the fact that they want to redevelop the estates around Latimer Road for private housing as they have done to a large estate by Portobello Road. Flats over a certain value are being sold off as soon as they become available. I heard a Tory politician from a neighbouring borough saying that social housing tenants should not be allowed to live in 'nice' houses.

This is one of the richest boroughs but there has been a systematic attempt by the council to treat the poor of North Kensington with contempt. Close nurseries and pour money into Opera Holland Park. Gift the library on Ladbroke Grove to a private school that is bankrolled by Goldman Sachs. Convert the local park into an all weather pitch for the use of private schools. I could go on.

Austerity is part of it, but it is more a mindset, a view by RBKC that the non rich are low life scum that have no voice and deserve to be treated with contempt.

Redsrule · 17/06/2017 08:19

In his time as Mayor Boris Johnson closed 10 fire stations and got rid of 27 fire engines. In 2013, when challenged about this, his response was "get stuffed". Our Foreign Secretary, lucky he isn't Home Office.

CrossWordSalad · 17/06/2017 08:19

Please could all the Tories jump on the bandwagon and ask people to explain stuff so they can trip them up and gloat

My question is a perfectly reasonable one. If pp are convinced they know enough about what went wrong and about who is to blame at this stage to lay the blame on "the Tories", TM and austerity, then they should be able to explain what would have happened differently to avoid this under Labour.

That's not trying to trip people up. It is asking for an explanation of what they are saying Hmm

coconuttella · 17/06/2017 08:22

Please could all the Tories jump on the bandwagon and ask people to explain stuff so they can trip them up and gloat.

Why on earth do you think Tories would want to gloat in the aftermath of such a tragedy? This "class war" mindset that paints the Tories as evil monsters is very damaging.

IdontTrusther · 17/06/2017 08:23

I don't understand this cladding, it was not fire resistant. The fire resistant one was slightly more expensive. The one used has caused fire. Its such a big thing, ie not sure about small quirky addition to the flats that may have been over looked
It's huge massive stuff wrapped around a building... I can't see in this day and age how fire safety was over looked. I just can't help feel some backhanders corruption played part. I also feel councils have quite a lot of power on UK and not much accountability. Look at baby p, Rotherham, my local council is in melt down with cries of sheer arrogance, corruption, I have had to try and deal with my council over dangerous fire hazard after fire and met with stonewall, arrogance... I feel something also needs to be looked at in council accountability.

The comment on here re... Even sadiq kahn was asked x y z.... Well apparently fire safety is one of his remits ad mayor and he has a massive budget too. I look forward to his ideas on taking urgent action to stop this in the other tower's right now.

GloriaGilbert · 17/06/2017 08:24

Please can one of the posters who know enough to be sure "the Tories", Theresa May and "austerity" are to blame for this disaster, talk me through the detail of how it would have been avoided under Labour?

Indeed.

It seems like the council ignored the various risks that the residents had pointed out. I'd pass as affluent and my (Labour) council ignores me too - on quite a few safety issues that I'd be happy to elaborate on if anyone's interested. Maybe I'm cynical but I've come to expect inept councils, and I'm not convinced its for a lack of funding.

This issue really seems to hinge on the cladding, and whether it was done for the viewing pleasure of the wealthy neighbours or to better insulate the building, depending on which newspaper you're reading. Obviously, they got it wrong and no-one disagrees that there should be a full examination of this decision, the decision makers, which options they discarded and for what reasons, etc.

IdontTrusther · 17/06/2017 08:26

catminion that's awful but it's council rather than tory council. They have too much power and not enough accountability.

Catminion · 17/06/2017 08:26

Yes local councils do have too much power. If you live in Kensington, you effectively live in a one party state, despite the efforts of the few Labour councillors.

Original poster
GreenTreesWithLeaves · 17/06/2017 08:27

How can the tories not see that their voting history is always out of touch with the poor. They vote against stringent health and safety rules, in order to benefit huge companies and themselves. Fox hunting seems to be their priority. Now abortion time limits are in discussion. This is not for the good of the poor, it is firmly for their own benefit.

How was the country in apparently terrible throes of austerity, and all of a sudden, upon the declaration of Theresa May, this is now over? What has changed?

OP posts:
CaptainMarvelDanvers · 17/06/2017 08:27

IdontTrusther my local Labour Councillors are known for been quite corrupt, even though I'm a Labour member - in the local election I voted Independent.

I think often people don't come out to vote in their local elections even though I would argue it's just as important as a general election.

Catminion · 17/06/2017 08:27

Idonttrusther

The local council has always been Tory and always will be so it is the fucking Tories - sorry.

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 17/06/2017 08:28

That's not trying to trip people up. It is asking for an explanation of what they are saying

Yeah I believe you

Cuppaoftea · 17/06/2017 08:31

What is important now in the immediate term is that the survivors are offered the help they need with rehousing, finances and other practical support. This has already been promised.

The public and the media need to an extent to step back from this now and let those in a position to do so assist those directly involved. Some of the coverage is ghoulish, some clearly out for political gain which is appalling.

There can be no 'justice' here. The investigation will take months if not years but the authorities have said it is not thought the fire was started deliberately and while a tragic decision was made with the cladding it had been passed as safe. Noone knowingly acted criminally. Other factors will have contributed to the cause and spread of the fire too, that won't be known with any certainty for some time. Lessons can be learned to improve safety for other Tower Block residents.

Theresa May met with the firefighters who continue to show incredible bravery and have witnessed horrific scenes. The criticism of her is unfounded and the questioning of her humanity appalling. Queen Elizabeth met with survivors and has released a dignified and uniting statement.

Anyone who continues to try and make political capital out of this tragedy will quickly lose support.

IdontTrusther · 17/06/2017 08:32

I think it's a mistake, as I said I thinks councils in general need to be looked at. After alleged Rotherham Council that knew and allowed abuse of thousands of girls to go on was labour. I must admit that I have never taken interest in local council elections but I am waking up to it now.

QuiteLikely5 · 17/06/2017 08:32

Cladding installed for viewing pleasure of the rich!

I've heard it all now

PeanutButterBunny · 17/06/2017 08:34

YABU. Sick of people politicizing tragedies. Now fuck off.

Catminion · 17/06/2017 08:36

It's true that one of the considerations for use of the cladding was aesthetics. There are some other council blocks off St Ann's Road near to Westfield that have been turned from grey to white by some sort of cladding and I remember reading that appearance was a reason.

frenboop · 17/06/2017 08:38

Multiple agencies and people of all political stripes are potentially culpable. I say again that decent people are revolted by the use of this suffering for political ends. It's disgusting.

Agree totally.

frenboop · 17/06/2017 08:38

Multiple agencies and people of all political stripes are potentially culpable. I say again that decent people are revolted by the use of this suffering for political ends. It's disgusting.

Agree totally.

SquidgeyMidgey · 17/06/2017 08:39

There were photos on the BBC that residents had taken previously showing mattresses and furniture dumped in corridors, and some survivors referred to these obstacles when recounting their escape. Genuine question because I don't know, is the council supposed to send in people to clear that stuff as part of the refuse collection?

CrossWordSalad · 17/06/2017 08:41

That's not trying to trip people up. It is asking for an explanation of what they are saying

Yeah I believe you

So it's okay for people to make sweeping accusations about who was responsible, but to ask for an explanation of how it is known who was responsible and what would have been done differently under Labour is somehow not on. How odd.

If people have a convincing case for their accusations, they should make it.

frenboop · 17/06/2017 08:42

The culling of the fire service was a labour initiative. Google John Prescott and the fire service and do some reading.

However, I can't understand how anyone thinks that the number of firefighters was in any way responsible for the number of deaths.

Also austerity doesn't stack up as millions were spent on this building. Spent badly, clearly, but spent none the less.

racheltable · 17/06/2017 08:43

What total rubbish!!! To few fire fighters? 40 fully staffed appliances attended. I think you need facts before you spread such uninformed crap.

Spoken like a true tory, @BubblesBuddy

sharklovers · 17/06/2017 08:44

Why didn't the Labour filth update building regs during the 13 years they were last in government?

user1471545174 · 17/06/2017 08:46

YABU OP, lay off the Koolaid.