Aibu to be so angry with the tory government regarding grenfell

[GreenTreesWithLeaves]

Grenfell should not have happened. Austerity, cost cutting, ignoring the poor, helping the rich get richer, all this led to the horrific circumstances.

Tory response? Theresa May didnt even speak to the survivor residents. A tory minister cited security reasons, yet the Queen managed to come out and talk to the residents without issue.

Tories have form for voting against safety issues in housing. All to benefit the wealthy. It is utterly shameful that these are the people that run our country, who care only for the rich.

I think the country is divided, I think the disaster has just highlighted it.

I have to admit, I felt angry, even before Grenfell Tower, with people who voted Conservative. I've seen the effect Austerity (which now the Tories have suddenly decided is over) has had on people. When you sit down and really think about it, you realise a lot of what's been done has been unnecessary.

I don't want to feel this way and I don't want the country to be divided, I think we need to start listening to each other without getting defensive and without running to our political tribes.

I haven't RTFT so apologies for any repetition.

Theresa May is PM despite 'winning' a very unpopular election a week beforehand and there was a huge swing in the Grenfell Tower constituency from her party to Labour.

Would I put myself at risk by visiting angry, bereaved and traumatised residents in the immediate aftermath of a huge tragedy?! Not a chance in hell. They're BLAMING her.

Even Sadiq Khan got told they wanted 'answers not handshakes'. The Queen got applauded JC went around hugging everyone suggesting crazy ideas like rehousing residents by requisitioning properties in Kensington which is utter madness and never going to happen.

She really can't win, can she?

The fire service saved 65 people from a burning building which is truly astonishing. It will be interesting to see what the inquiry comes back with but at the moment, seems like the blame culture is taking over rather than focusing on the human tragedy.

I feel exactly the same as you danvers; i have been angry since "austerity" cuts began. Since Cameron took the selfish gamble with the European referendum i have struggled to understand how anyone could still support the Tories. Grenfell is so devastating.
You are right though; tribalism isn't going to help.
I do not buy cuts to the NHS, local authorities, schools & benefits. I have never believed they are necessary & i believe they will cripple our economy & widen inequality.
Make sure people are receiving adequate healthcare, education, social care, housing & income and they will have the tools to work to generate income. Invest a hell of a lot more in HMRC & you will generate much more revenue in catching the wealthiest who are taking, without paying their fair share (they are the spongers).
Basic cost/benefit analysis would have made the decision to spend the additional 5K (in total) to clad Grenfell in the cladding with improved fire safety.

There needs to be an inquest not an inquiry, there have been several inquiries into similar fires already. The findings were all similar & not implemented.

Multiple agencies and people of all political stripes are potentially culpable. I say again that decent people are revolted by the use of this suffering for political ends. It's disgusting. So true

I don't think this tragedy was caused by austerity, and to link it in that way is trying to make political capital out of this appalling event.

I absolutely think TM should have met residents afterwards and faced their anger.... now, partly as a result of her high handed attitude at the start, it's too late as anger has boiled up to the point of it being dangerous.

Notwithstanding the obvious and completely justifiable anger of residents after this event, the expectations of some are nonetheless rather unrealistic in expecting a permanent solution to their housing within the locality to have been sorted already. However urgently and diligently officials work, sorting hundreds of permanent housing solutions in inner London will inevitably take time - there is no magic wand - even if radical solutions are taken such as requisitioning properties.

This blame game is bloody ridiculous!

If the Tory govt was that greedy they would not have paid out bloody 8 million quid to improve the building in the first place!!!!!

This cladding apparently met fire safety requirements and was passed by whoever was in charge at the time (some inspector)

So how about people start uniting and stop using this tragedy to batter a political party!

Ironically if the improvements were not made the fire would not have spread as it did

Damned if you do

quite So what would you say to the residents who had told the council that their building was unsafe and were fobbed off, time and time again?

So what would you say to the residents who had told the council that their building was unsafe and were fobbed off, time and time again?

But Kensington and Chelsea Council are not the Government!

Was the cladding the reason for their complaint though?

I would say let's wait and see who dismissed their concerns and eventually somebody will be held accountable but the criticism aimed at TM when on an rational level she should not be blamed.

She's doing all she can - she's offered housing to all in a three week timeframe and 5 million to help with immediate expenses for the residents. Let's give the govt a chance.

The Tories hate the poor. The poor are suffering and dying. There does seem to be a connection there, I wonder why some people are incapable of making it?

coconut point to where I said the council are the government, please. I was asking a question.

quite Like you said, we don't know the full extent of why stuff happened. So why are you bringing up the cladding if you think we should wait for answers? They KNEW their building was unsafe - and they were right, but no one listened.

No, I will not 'get behind the government' just because that seems like it would be pleasant and lovely and we could all just get along. You can't just expect people to shut up because it makes you uncomfortable.

Was the cladding the reason for their complaint though?

I don't believe it was... There clearly needs to be an inquiry and this will by necessity take some time, not years and years but this can't be done in a couple of days as some people seem to believe is reasonable. Justifiably angry as people are, calling TM a 'murderer' as some have done is hysterical nonsense and can't help.

namechanger22
Because most people are not suffering from psychosis.

The Tories hate the poor.

The Tories don't "hate" the poor. Yes, yo may disagree profoundly with, and be angered by, Tory policies, but the only hatred here is your hatred of the Tories, and your willingness to impute blame onto them for this tragedy before any inquiry has taken place.

Please can one of the posters who know enough to be sure "the Tories", Theresa May and "austerity" are to blame for this disaster, talk me through the detail of how it would have been avoided under Labour?

I haven't read all the thread so this may have been answered
There are loads of reports claiming too few fire men. Apparently the three closest fire stations have been closed. They are supposed to be active for 4 hours then relieved but they were active for over 12 hours
And what would have happened if there was another fire
I don't think you can judge just by looking at the numbers there. Fire chiefs and workers have been tweeting and reporting about lower numbers, work practice and closures

There have already been inquiries into similar tower block fires and the findings were not acted upon.
I do not trust the process. I do not trust the government that made not acting on the findings seem like a reasonable response.
We don't know what Labour would have done/wouldn't have done. We do know that Theresa May's leadership is untenable. I do not have an iota of respect left.
I don't know when the time for politics is, if not know.

now

Please could all the Tories jump on the bandwagon and ask people to explain stuff so they can trip them up and gloat.

There are loads of reports claiming too few fire men.

Is anyone saying that a lack a firefighters led or contributed to this tragedy? I don't believe so... They got there extremely quickly and were joined by dozens of other crews. Yes, they worked long shifts, but this was a (thankfully) extremely rare national tragedy... it's unrealistic to staff to be on hand to effortlessly manage something like this.

I'm getting increasingly cross at the political point scoring and attempts to divide this country in the wake of this tragedy.

I think the anger is a combination of issues happening across the country, especially the way the poor are looked at and are treated. I think the fire just brought things to a head.

I do think this would have happened whether it was a Labour, Tory or Lib Dem council. Councils try to save money where they can, they also sometimes have the wrong priorities. In this case fire safety was not on the list of priorities. This should not happen ever again.

But let's not pretend and dismiss the idea that the Conservative government have not used the poor and vulnerable as targets of their cuts, and let's not pretend that 312 Conservative MPs had the interests of the country at heart when they voted against the amendment to the housing bill. I'm sure even most of their voters would have disagreed with this decision.

If you are being constantly kicked in the teeth, I think you would feel that the one who is doing the kicking doesn't like you.

I think what the country needs now is unity, all the parties have to come together and compromise. They need to lead by example instead of playing putty with our lives.

i havent read whole thread so this point may have been made already but AIBU ...to ask what on earth people are exepcting by storming town hall less than a week after the event demanding 'answers' and 'justice' when even the fire service cannot get into the whole building yet ?
I appreciate that people are acting out of shock and anger and grief, but this is getting no one anywhere....and the media whipping them up into a frenzy infront of the cameras is dispicable.

Answers to why it happened will only come when a full investigation has been carried out. Shouting for the PM to resign..really...did she light the tough paper ?

The reactions by people on the street is symbolic of a nation that has been conditioned to expect everything immediately....they need help with accomadation, food, clothing, money and practical help immediately ...and it does seem that the local govt have been woefully unprepared for such and event and lacked any kind of disaster plan , but answers and possibly justice...well how can anyone including the PM give that right now ?

I would much rather govt got on with governing and left local govt to handle the practicalities....the royals are good at visiting the scene of disaster etc...that's their job so to speak, but frankly the PM on the streets hugging people and making rash promises ( as JC did) is a sight i would not want, she needs to be running the country..

Millions was spent on refurbishment, to make it look better, not safer..so it seems.

coconuttella the country is already divided and has been for a long time.