Aibu to be so angry with the tory government regarding grenfell

[GreenTreesWithLeaves]

Grenfell should not have happened. Austerity, cost cutting, ignoring the poor, helping the rich get richer, all this led to the horrific circumstances.

Tory response? Theresa May didnt even speak to the survivor residents. A tory minister cited security reasons, yet the Queen managed to come out and talk to the residents without issue.

Tories have form for voting against safety issues in housing. All to benefit the wealthy. It is utterly shameful that these are the people that run our country, who care only for the rich.

I also agree derxa

I think the surviving residents of Grenfell have made it clear who they think is responsible. If you read their blog posts over the years you can see that no one listened to them. It wasn't a natural disaster, it wasn't an act of god.

Why have the tories voted against more stringent health and safety regulations in the last year?

The number of fire fighters is academic to a point as the dry riser access points were broken. Without that the fire fighters can only aim to less than half way up the outside of the building. Even if there were 10 times the number of fire fighters it still wouldn't have been possible for them.to rescue from higher up. The blame for this lies squarely at the feet of whoever is responsible for the fire safety maintenance of that block.

what on earth people are exepcting by storming town hall less than a week after the event demanding 'answers' and 'justice' when even the fire service cannot get into the whole building yet ? I appreciate that people are acting out of shock and anger and grief, but this is getting no one anywhere...

They're distraught and have nothing to lose, because they've lost everything already. You may have heard about it on the news.

The blame for this lies squarely at the feet of whoever is responsible for the fire safety maintenance of that block.

Yes I agree.

I'm not a TM supporter or a tory supporter but I think until we know for sure which factors contributed to the fire spreading so rapidly and devastatingly, it's all speculation. What is undeniable is that there have been cuts to police, firefighters, councils etc in the past 7 years. Also the residents of Grenfell have tried to voice their fears for lack of safety in the house but nothing seemed to have been done about it. And now their fears have come through and so many people paid with their lives. Anger is a natural feeling after something like that. Of course it will be directed at the people in power.

The way it spread suggests the renovations weren't done with fire safety in mind. A high rise flat should be a self-contained concrete firebox so that in the event of a fire it can't spread. During renovations its possible this is compromised. For instance, pipework going from flat to flat, or from a common area to a flat, that has been removed and rerouted leaves a hole, a way through for fire. That should be filled with a fire proof material, if it isn't then it allows fire to spread rapidly.

I think the surviving residents of Grenfell have made it clear who they think is responsible. If you read their blog posts over the years you can see that no one listened to them

Who have the residents said they think is responsible?

what on earth people are exepcting by storming town hall less than a week after the event demanding 'answers' and 'justice' when even the fire service cannot get into the whole building yet ? I appreciate that people are acting out of shock and anger and grief, but this is getting no one anywhere

I dont know who said this so apologies if this is a usually lovely poster who has had a brain storm

But dont be a twat all your life love...have a think, there were children in there, lovers and parents.

I was going to write a bit more, but it's probably a waste of time

Agree with friend

Caroldecker the decision on materials was made at a later date under delegated powers . So the decision would not have gone to the planning commmittee. This is very much normal procedure and does not appear to have beeen consulted upon. The decisons was based on asthetic grounds only . However building control ought to have been involved too. Can't see any evidence of that.

Why can't we requisition an empty apartment building in the local area? Given that this is an emergency?

Plenty of people have had their houses taken under compulsory purchase orders for the high speed rail link.

I am not political but it seems to be there are too many factors here to blame one party or the other given they are all equally shit and corrupt as far as I can see.

However:

• mandatory tendering and acceptance of the lowest bids for all building works will have contributed to this - it's 'known as suicide bidding' in the trade. In a race to the bottom with tiny margins, building companies WILL cut corners
• given the work is tendered, then sub-contracted, accountability of works and oversight has clearly been lacking
• LG have had their planning departments cut and cut and cut. Each LG had a department then managed the kind of refit that we have seen at Grenfell - if this had occurred under this structure, there would have been a direct corporate manslaughter case if the refit had been found to be mismanaged.

It seems to me whilst all the parties and 'political' personalities get to say their sound bites and getting a kicking, or not on the TV, something significant will have to change, as honestly, no one really cares enough about the real people. It's just shit.

Building Regulations were last updated in 2010 - presumably by "labour filth"

"The new Labour MP for K&C, Emma Dent Coad, was on the planning committee on 28 April 2015, when the materials for the cladding were approved.
I am assuming she registered an objection on fire safety grounds."

What I find fascinating is that Emma Dent Coad's Wikipedia entries have been modified several times very recently to coincide with the Evening Standard report.

Then I remember that the Standard is edited by the Conservative ex-Chancellor George Osborne

crosswordsalad

I am surprised you haven't heard what local people have been saying on TV and in the press but here you are

grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/

If the council had triggered a disaster/major incident plan then presumably there would have been council reps on site explaining what was going to happen - instead someone found it more important to distribute a memo banning ball play.

If they don't have a disaster plan or don't have the resources to develop / execute one that's down either to cuts or spending choices - political choices.

I'd assumed the lack of representation was why the locals went to the offices - if the mountain won't come to Muhammed and all that

If the new MP was on the planning committee she would have no reason to object on fire safety grounds. Planning committee members remit is not to consider fire safety in the absence of an objection by the fire service. They would also have to assume that the building would comply with Building Regs which are a different regime and one in they are not involved in.

Catminion It seems from the blog that the tenants hold their landlord, KCTMO responsible, with the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea also involved.

I am unclear how this translates to it being "The Tories", TM and austerity.

I don't pretend to be hugely informed on this issue, but then I am not making accusations about who is responsible, I am just asking for information.

grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders. We believe that the KCTMO are an evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia who have no business to be charged with the responsibility of looking after the every day management of large scale social housing estates and that their sordid collusion with the RBKC Council is a recipe for a future major disaster

Why can't we requisition an empty apartment building in the local area? Given that this is an emergency?

Plenty of people have had their houses taken under compulsory purchase orders for the high speed rail link.

I doubt there's an empty block of flats in the area, but if there were, there will be an owner(s) who would protest the order.

Rail link requisitions take years.

Aren't there large numbers of empty blocks in the wealthy parts of London, owned by foreign investors?

Aren't there large numbers of empty blocks in the wealthy parts of London, owned by foreign investors?

There are great numbers of empty homes, but not empty tower blocks unless they're a work in progress.

This is a cross party issue and people all parties have failed. The level of misinformation is worrying. For example: the Fit for Human Habitation amendment applied to private NOT social houing. Secondly the Government had already adopted protections from an earlier Labour private members bill on this topic into the Housing and Planning Bill so the proposed amendment was in places duplicative. There are significant number of regs like gas safety that already existed prior to the amendment.
It really isn't a simple party political issue.

crosswordsalad

I was responding to other posts on here. However in this borough where I have lived all my 54 years the council is and will always be Tory. Tories = RBKC = KCTMO. Is that a bit clearer?

They have treated the poor and socially housed of North Kensington with utter contempt over a long period of time.

This is our reality. Thanks to the Tories who consider the whole purpose of their council is to facilitate the rich of this borough.

The nursery where my daughters went has been closed due to 'austerity'. The library where my husband worked has been given to a private school. The local park where I played as a child and where my children played, is being converted into an all weather pitch for local private schools.

Yes I am fucking angry at the Tories, their fucking austerity policies and their fucking leader, Teresa fucking May. They all represent the same view, government of the rich and privileged for the rich and privileged.

So please stop the wide eyed innocence about how the Tories are not responsible for this.