Aibu to be so angry with the tory government regarding grenfell

[GreenTreesWithLeaves]

Grenfell should not have happened. Austerity, cost cutting, ignoring the poor, helping the rich get richer, all this led to the horrific circumstances.

Tory response? Theresa May didnt even speak to the survivor residents. A tory minister cited security reasons, yet the Queen managed to come out and talk to the residents without issue.

Tories have form for voting against safety issues in housing. All to benefit the wealthy. It is utterly shameful that these are the people that run our country, who care only for the rich.

Lotus, you asked me about my agenda. When I ask you the same, I am deflecting?

dinocandle it is not the fire brigades fault.

another
I had look at CPOs and if he was PM yes he could quite easliy, maybe you should go have a look? Same as TM could. But also we do not know that this is what he wants/would do.

There are also CPOs of lesser extent, where properties are least/loaned to the government.

Whether I agree with CPOs is another matter.
I haven't made my mind up on it to be honest, but I'm not above looking at all angles for any of CPOs.

dinocandle if the fire broke out just before 1am and the fire brigade didn't come til 3am how come there is film of them at the site before then.

My daughters friend from whitstable house also messaged her about 1.30am that she could see flames and fire engines.

Or as Jeremy Corbyn would have it, just seize them immediately without due process

No he hasn't said that.

It was a deflection because you didn't answer the question, you simply batted it back to me.

HTH.

Why should I not bat it back to you? Since you asked, you should go first as clearly you think one must have an agenda here to offer their views on the matter. Your question implied that I have an agenda but you don't. So batting the question back to you is very appropriate.

Witch, Jeremy Corbyn is not the PM. So is he saying that make him PM (like yesterday) so he can go ahead an seize property. He was asking for this to be done immediately in response to the people of Grenfell. He wasn't talking about a long term process.

Or as Jeremy Corbyn would have it, just seize them immediately without due process

No he hasn't said that.

No, he hasn't, but anyone with any sense would work out that the practicalities of doing this legally make it a non-starter because it would take years.

So, we're left to infer the logical conclusion: if his 'solution' is of any immediate use to the Grenfell victims, it's theft. If it's a long-term solution, it's not much use. I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

In any case, it will not work without changing the law because the government's threshold to seize property would not have been met.

The fire brigade arrived very quickly. They then brought in loads of extras from all over - 40! and that was rightly brought in over time - one fire on one floor does not mean you call out brigades from all over.

Corybn has not said he will confiscate any empty homes and I write that as a May supporter.

Another,

Whatever.

Surely JC was questioning whether in a crisis situation we should be able to requisition empty land banked properties for short term use. A bit like we did during the war. Is that so wrong really? Their owners will still own them in the long term.

I feel angry at the kensington and chelsea local council who are the people with feet on the ground and should have increased their council tax (one of the lowest in the country ) to finance what they should have been doing in their area. And of course, be the first responders with help.
I also blame the voters of K and C who voted in the local council - their vote, their choice.

I hate the way so many are blaming the government (by political point scoring) who have lots going on and are not able to micro-manage what is happening.
It is devastating for all those who are bereaved and our hearts go out to them but this kind of 'mob' vocalisation by those not directly involved is not helping them.

If this tragedy had happened two weeks earlier, she wouldn't be in number 10 at all!

We don't know what JC would do. We do know Tory ministers turned down urgent requests for meetings about the situation at Grenfel tower.

JC might or might not get it right, we know for absolute fact the Tories got it wrong.

Oh and we know TM wants to rip up the human rights act.

Actually its natural rights that by definition can't cost money, human rights can cost. For instance article 25 - everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for health and well-being including food, housing, medical care and social security. Or article 26 - the right to education, free in the fundamental stages. Those rights cost money but they are our human rights.

Where natural and human rights diverge, they are political, therefore mutable, therefore not a human right.

I agree, of course, that many things such as housing and health care have come under the rubric of human rights. I disagree with this in the strongest terms possible because it means that human rights are no longer inalienable.

The Human Rights act and so forth should really be called the Citizen's Rights act or Residents Rights or whatever.

You might want them to be considered something other than human rights but the fact is that they are human rights.

'Human rights' that can and will change over time and vary from one country to another. How is that meaningful?

Its as meaningful as any other human rights. All the rights enshrined in the universal declaration of human rights are meaningful, are you trying to say that some are worth less than others?

Just caught up with the thread and oh my goodness, Hammond has just said that the cladding was banned on UK high rises and that regulations have not been followed. Surely, this is murder for profit

2 women who were protesting the fire safety issues and were sent bullying letters by the Tenant Management Organisation threatening legal action if they didnt stop. Those 2 brave women are now missing, feared dead. This is the stuggle between the powerful and the weak, the rich and the poor and dare I say it, the fact that a lot of the residents were non-white will also have some bearing on the lack of action too.