Aibu to be so angry with the tory government regarding grenfell

[GreenTreesWithLeaves]

Grenfell should not have happened. Austerity, cost cutting, ignoring the poor, helping the rich get richer, all this led to the horrific circumstances.

Tory response? Theresa May didnt even speak to the survivor residents. A tory minister cited security reasons, yet the Queen managed to come out and talk to the residents without issue.

Tories have form for voting against safety issues in housing. All to benefit the wealthy. It is utterly shameful that these are the people that run our country, who care only for the rich.

I think perhaps you are sterotyping leave voters as dispossessed have-nots. 17.4 million people do not all fall into that category. I live in a fairly well off area, great standard of living and quality of life. People voted more than 70% leave. Not because we are unhappy with our lives. There is no evidence for much of a protest vote. It this had been a factor, the leave/remain polls would have changed after the referendum, but they didn't.

On radicalisation, if it is about opportunity and success, we would expect to see radicalisation across ethnicities and religions, as many people face deprivation and lack of opportunity, but we don't. Which strongly suggest another factor.

I really think putting profir before people's well being needs to change

I agree with this, and I think this is the thinking of many who voted to leave the EU, that maximising economic success should not be placed above issues.

the post clearly aims that at Brexit, not at this tragedy but you twist away

Yes that post was about Brexit but its still just another thing that people are blaming the poor for not being involved enough for. Someone else on this thread has blamed the residents e.g. the poor for not being involved enough to change the management of the building. It seems that a lot of people want to blame the poor for not realising what negatively effects them or for not believing they have the ability to change those things, which based on their past experiences is about right. Instead of blaming them, we need to blame the people that came up with Brexit, the people that cut regulations, the people that thought cladding that was banned in other countries is perfectly fine to use on social housing, basically stop blaming the poor and start blaming the people in power.

She has certainly not done enough to assist with the tower fire .
The army should have been deployed to help with organisation and set up a field kitchen to feed residents.
A help tent should have been set up with housing and social workers etc to assist people.
All simple ideas that have not been done simply left to volunteers to do.

Absolute tragic waste of life

It's really undermining this fatal tragedy under criminal investigation to lump it in with Brexit.

You don't like Brexit. Fine. It's not the same thing as what may turn out to be corporate manslaughter.

I agree that this tragedy and a discussion about it should not be conflated with Brexit. What I do think though is that a lot of the leave vote was motivated by a desire to see more investment in public services and less pressure being put on them.

Agree the implication that residents are somehow to blame and they should have changed the management committee is pretty distasteful at this point.

Natsku
The residents were the people in power, as are voters in the UK. The fact many refuse to use it does not stop it being true.

The ability to vote doesn't make them the people in power.

carol you are being disingenuous. Do you really think that the majority of residents were going to get involved and start taking the people in charge to task? Think about why people live in social housing. One of the benefits is that you have a right to expect that the people in charge will make decisions that are in your interest.

Yabu

Exactly Squeegle

Carol, those people are amongst the most vulnerable in society, therefore i social housing. I will not hold it against them that they did not vote. Time and time again, it has been mentioned on this thread, how smokescreens and confusion is created to influence a decision. Time and time again the residents spoke plainly and passionately about the dangers, yet that seems all null and void because they didnt put a cross in a box. This is exactly what is infuriating. they are not heard, they face so many barriers. It is your privilege that makes you declare that they should have voted. It is your privilege that makes you declare why anyone else should care. You most certainly would not have those views, had you needed social hoising or had you been in that fire on that night. Your lack of empathy is astounding.

If the residents can't be arsed to vote once a year for their own benefit, why the hell should anyone else give a fuck?

If the residents can't be arsed to vote once a year for their own benefit, why the hell should anyone else give a fuck?

I can't believe you wrote that, is that what you really think?

Squidgey, this statement that you have just c&p'd again, are you saying that when children die in a fire, you do not care because their parents didnt vote?

Sorry I posted too soon on the first one I was so cross. That's absolutely not what I meant GreenTrees, I was incredulous that someone wrote that.

Sorry squidgey, my apologies.

My fault, but thank you anyway.

I have just seen a letter in the guardian which states that the borough had an underspend of millions. Now, I don't really understand how these things work, so can someone knowledgeable please tell me who sets the council budget? If there is an underspend, can that money be diverted to where its most needed instead of transferring to capital reserves?

Here is a link to that letter

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/my-council-tax-rebate-from-kensington-and-chelsea-is-blood-money

This article by a London architect is very interesting and shows how cost cutting at all levels and taking safety out of the hands of properly funded public serbvants and putting it in the hands of developers have compromised the safety of buildings. Profit before safety.

www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2017/jun/17/architects-grenfell-tower-fire-was-an-avoidable-tragedy

If the residents can't be arsed to vote once a year for their own benefit, why the hell should anyone else give a fuck?

Unbelievable. How can you write that after people have died?

And why should anyone else give a fuck? Because they're people who don't deserve to die in a fire because they, for whatever reason (and there are many reasons why underprivileged people don't participate in things like this), did not vote.

Carol, your views and opinions are repugnant. After writing that statement, don't try to pretend you care.

Yup. That is it. People in social housing do need extra protection. Many of them are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons. It's not patronising anyone to ensure that the place they live has the appropriate safety measures. And there are experts on this, we can't all be experts in knowing which is the right material to use. This is why it's so important that building regulations are up to date and adhered to.

Andrew Davies replied · 5 Replies · 1 hr

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This broadly brings together everything Ive read so far on this awful tragedy, points 1,6,7,8 and 9 are especially salient.

1 - the block of flats was run not by any council but by KCTMO. This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councilors and 3 independent members.

2 - Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.

3 - Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service

4 - incidentally Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.

5 - the advise to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.

6 - the decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.

7 - the decision not to spend a paltry £138k on fitting sprinklers again KCTMO.

8 - the decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2000 as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.

9 - this was put in place to give leasehold tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which has clearly proven to be a disaster.

10 - and which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? Yup you guessed it Labour.

11 - Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.

12 -Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants