Aibu to be so angry with the tory government regarding grenfell

[GreenTreesWithLeaves]

Grenfell should not have happened. Austerity, cost cutting, ignoring the poor, helping the rich get richer, all this led to the horrific circumstances.

Tory response? Theresa May didnt even speak to the survivor residents. A tory minister cited security reasons, yet the Queen managed to come out and talk to the residents without issue.

Tories have form for voting against safety issues in housing. All to benefit the wealthy. It is utterly shameful that these are the people that run our country, who care only for the rich.

Agent that's the impression I'm getting from reading around about the KCTMO on the GAG blog and comments on From The Hornet's Nest. For example:

The Council are obliged to carry a "test of opinion" every five years. They do. They just do it in such a way that most tenants and leaseholders have no idea it's taking place or understand what they're being asked. If the Council made any effort whatsoever to ensure that tenants and leaseholders understood what was going on the end result would have led to the TMO's demise many years ago.

The CEO and his sidekicks treat the Board like mushrooms - keep them in the dark, feed them shit. It has always been this way. Because the Board, and the resident Board members in particular, are just a side-show to keep the plebs distracted whilst the staff do whatever the hell they like.

There was an independent investigation in 2009 which found a catalogue of failings with KCTMO. From what I am reading, nothing has really changed since. Link here.

The whole point is that social housing is for people who don't have political clout; old ladies, young families, refugees etc. The job of the council is to make sure their housing is up to scratch, and the standard are those that any of us would expect in our own homes. Full stop. They were not doing this. It is disgraceful.

You can see how this could easily be perceived as paternalistic. In general, giving residents oversight of their management company is an appealing idea.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the baseline standards are dictated by the council, not the management company?

Another let's have a pop at the torries. If this had happened under Labour would everyone on here be crying out that it was their fault? No, I don't think so.

Can anyone shed any light on why there isn't more of a spot light on Sadie Khan and what he has done or not done over the last 12 months? Doesn't the the mayoral office have responsibiliy for fire and planning issues? Would his office have been involved in signing off on planning issues and refurbishment consents? Or has he be shouting about fire control and planning issues for buildings such as these in London and I've missed it?

The Council are obliged to carry a "test of opinion" every five years. They do. They just do it in such a way that most tenants and leaseholders have no idea it's taking place or understand what they're being asked*

This sounds much as expected Pencils, doesn't it?

And I don't think we can ignore the possibility of residents not wishing to 'rock the boat.' We know one person who died was a Syrian refugee, for example. I used to work with refugee students and substandard housing was a huge problem. Many of these students would put up with it until it became unlivable out of fear of being seen as a troublemaker, of being made homeless or being deported. The university where I worked, shamefully, failed to support these students. The Students Representative Council didn't want to be at risk of legal disputes, slander etc. We were told, as Student Support, not to intervene. I eventually said fuck it and took one guy to Citizens Advice, where it emerged that his landlord was, as suspected, illegally subletting and thus he owed her none of the (ever increasing sums of) money she was requesting. People are scared when they feel that 'causing trouble' could mean homelessness or worse for them and their families.

And you wonder, were interpreters/interpreted versions of communication provided for speakers of other languages? Obviously I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if not.

19Lottie82 don't be silly, they would be blaming the previous conservative government for the less they had left.

There has always throughout history been manipulation and mistreatment of the more vulnerable in society. Our modern democratic society is a place where we don't expect this to be carried on. It seems that it is still alive and well. This is not what any of us want. It is time for a change. If you call this politicising a tragedy then so be it, but I don't think ignoring all the circumstances that contributed to this appalling tragedy is the right thing, and frankly the polarisation of rich and poor that we have seen in the last few years is a big part of the problem. We are becoming increasingly insulated against the rest of society, whichever side we are on. It's time to pull together.

Considering the report Gavin Barwell has sat on for four years that could have averted this, and the Tory run council for the last 100 years, its right that the tories are being blamed.

You are being silly Squidgey.
The tactic you are talking about is a Tory one.

Tanny to be fair I think it's a fairly universal tactic. I agree that something needs to be done about Barwell but blaming a Tory council isn't the same as blaming a Tory government. It's about time the tower blocks went and if this catslyses that then all well and good. I don't think anyone on any political side is anything but horrified by this, we were all terrified when we saw the pictures and wondered how the he'll we would get our children out of there.

Yanbu. It's is blindingly obvious why Theresa May is having a mare. There's a common denominator in all of it - deadly fires, home grown terrpsism, brexit, fascism, racism, socialism- it all comes down to poverty and gross inequalities in society. In her own words enough is enough. People have to come before profits and that means health, welfare, education, housing and social care first. People are right to be furious

Bookworm I don't agree with all of that. Home grown terrorists normally cite our wars abroad. Racism isn't because of financial inequality. Racism and socialism are fired by a few smart cookies who use the struggles of the poor to their own ends. And Brexit ffs. Brexit is because people voted for it following long demands for a referendum. I don't want Brexit either but it's not a conservative construct.

Facism and socialism, not racism and socialism.

Rubbish bookworm. The blindingly obvious common denominator is that is that humans are capable of gross inhumanity and staggering incompetence sometimes - whether rich or poor, whatever their class, creed, religion, intelligence or bloody shoe size.

YABU - very
if you could only listen to the 'hate' you are all spouting - with one or two reasonable exceptions of poster who get it and know the facts.
No wonder this country cannot come together about anything when the hatred is poured out all over social media and no-one checks the facts about this tragedy.

Shame on all of you who 'hate so much' it is nothing to be proud of.

'Another let's have a pop at the torries. If this had happened under Labour would everyone on here be crying out that it was their fault? No, I don't think so. '

I don't know. But I hope most people are not guided by what other people may fail to do under other circumstances.

It is a complete disgrace that all this is still be organised by volunteers, that the government promised they would go in today to help and then didn't turn up, that people are sleeping in leisure centres.

If this was happening in another country, we would all be looking on in horror at the lack of response.

How can any UK government treat citizens like this? Aren't people terrified that if a disaster happened to your family, your community, you would be treated like this?

What has happened to our society that we're not all terrified that this could be done to any of us?

bookworm is right to say that social inequality is bolstering up many of the problems; and do you really think that Brexit has nothing to do with social inequality? Why do you think that so many people voted for Brexit, especially in the most deprived areas?

Because they didn't read up on it before the referendum Squeegle. Because it's become acceptable to be politically disenfranchised if you live in a deprived area. I grew up in a crappy part of Coventry and my parents were involved with the local political activists, they didn't sit on their backsides whinging that no-one was listening.

Oh so we're back to blaming the poor for not getting involved enough.

This is a political issue and we can't expect the Government to do anything about it through an inquiry as they've had inquiries before and nothing has been done. This is a time when people need to kick up a fuss and make noise about this because otherwise it'll just get swept aside.

I'm not much good at emoting, but I make sure people are fed and watered and the practicalities are taken care of when there is a crisis. Perhaps the PM is the same?

Of course she's no good at emoting, she's a robot I wouldn't place much hope in her doing much good on the practical side of things either though.

That's exactly what I mean squidgey, inequality does not help good politics

Another let's have a pop at the torries. If this had happened under Labour would everyone on here be crying out that it was their fault? No, I don't think so.

Are you kidding me? Of course they would, this is a staggeringly naive/just plain obtuse thing to say. You think the MN Tories wouldn't? Ooookay then.

Oh so we're back to blaming the poor for not getting involved enough
the post clearly aims that at Brexit, not at this tragedy but you twist away.

Squeegle in some ways the government of the day cant win. If they look after people the people call it an interfering nanny state, if they leave people to their own devices they get told they haven't done enough. If there had been a political information campaign aimed at the deprived areas people would have said they were being patronised. Because there wasn't such a campaign people say they're ignored. That's for any party.

Yanbu. It's is blindingly obvious why Theresa May is having a mare. There's a common denominator in all of it - deadly fires, home grown terrpsism, brexit, fascism, racism, socialism- it all comes down to poverty and gross inequalities in society

Where to start. I think you'll find that Brexit was due to many people wanting to leave the EU. And home-grown terrorism is because of poverty and inequality? Who knew? Not Islamism in the main then?

I believe that people who are happy and fulfilled and succeeding would not be radicalised. I think it's due to discontent and a lack of hope. Same goes for brexit. People in deprived areas blamed EU migration and wanted to protest against the government. I really think putting profir before people's well being needs to change.