To hate Lily Allen

[ClappingThighs]

I can't stand her. Always popping up somewhere that she's not required to put her 2 cents in. It's like her music is so shit and unpopular she's decided to just stick her oar in wherever she can now. I've never disliked anyone this strongly before (that I've never met!)

Well she seems to have got the message through to optional

She has indeed, histinyhands, I have set up a vigil in her honour and had her face tattooed on my leg.

Well channel 4 ness seemed to think she was important enough to interview her st the scene

TV stations interview anyone who is willing to talk to them in such situations. They are there for hours and have to show work for it.
Many of those interviewed are twats who have nothing better to do and aren't worth listening to.

She can tweet whatever she likes

Earlier today she tweeted a leaflet suggesting 400-600 dead, possibly 700. Extremely irresponsible imo.

What's that you're insinuating? A former cleb , trying to generate publicity for herself and make a tragic situation worse by unhelpfully exaggerating speculation and falsehoods? Heaven forfend.

www.joe.co.uk/news/why-gary-lineker-lily-allen-and-you-shouldnt-comment-93236?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onsite_share

Excellent link ghosty, spot on.

I am fully in favour or free speech. I am not in favour of clebs and former clebs deliberately exaggerating an already dreadful situation.

I am fully in favour or free speech. I am not in favour of clebs and former clebs deliberately exaggerating an already dreadful situation.

Those two sentences may not be mutually compatible.

Not really scottish

Free speech means you won't be taken to prison for voicing an opinion. Not that you should offer your opinion on absolutely everything every time you feel like.

"offer your opinion on absolutely everything every time you feel like."

Sounds like a reasonable definition of free speech. People dont need to agree with what you say but free speech is about the ability and right to say it. Celebs have as much right to say what they want compared to anyone else. And everyone else can decide if they agree or not.

Doesnt matter if they are not experts. After all Brexit and Trump are the triumphs of the non-expert age.

No, free speech means you can LEGALLY say what you like.

It doesn't mean you should, however, say whatever you like without thinking of any repercussions whatsoever.

Free speech is great. but it is a right that comes with responsibility. And in my opinion Lily Allen didn't take any responsibility with what she was saying, and hyped up emotions that were already high.

That, to me, is not taking responsibility for what you are saying. And, while legal, it is morally wrong.

As soon as you start applying morals or ethics on free speech you are limiting free speech. Free speech is the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint. As soon as you step away from that, seek to limit what someone says, due to your opinion on what someone is saying then it is, by definition, no longer free speech.

The UN Declaration on Human Rights includes free speech as something to be protected. And sets out the circumstances through which free speech can be limited. Not being happy with what a celeb says isnt one of them.

And I absolutely defend her right to say what she likes.

I can, at the same time, wish she would occasionally stfu and think about what she is saying.

There are many people here who seem to wish the same about the OP so it is two sides of the same coin really.

I defend her right to say what she likes too and Trump's and everyone else's. They all have to act within the law of course. If she says there may be many more casualties than is at all likely to be the case I don't think she's broken a law. Lots of people wrongly estimate things all the time. All of use, on the right and left, want there to be as few casualties as possible. Despite what the press would have us think we are all pretty united as a nation on this.

I don't think anyone thinks she's broken the law.

But I think she could have respected the fact that firefighters didn't release a number yet for a reason, instead of making it sound like there is a conspiracy going on.

Today 01:07 scottishdiem

As soon as you start applying morals or ethics on free speech you are limiting free speech. Free speech is the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint

By your definition above, you are entirely supportive of the role played by hate radio (this was before the days of social media) in the 1993-94 genocide of millions of men, women and children from the Tutsi minority in Rwanda. Radio personalities went on a campaign spreading vicious lies demonising the minority and encouraging the majority Hutu tribe to massacre their Tutsi neighbours.

It was the worst genocide of living memory.

All fair in the name of "free speech"?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Libre_des_Mille_Collines

The UN goes on to say (several times) that with great freedoms come great responsibilities. When anger is justifiably running high, it would be highly irresponsible to deliberately stoke up emotions with e.g. exaggerated numbers of deaths or speculation as to a deliberate / malicious cause.

The thing is though, Lily Allen has a point. The media ARE downplaying the numbers and not focusing on the people who died in the same way they do in other tragedies.

Why?

Is it the same old media racism - white deaths get reported more than non-white deaths?

Or is it that there is a cover-up? Are they supressing the figures because they are worried about social unrest or - worse - that they know the government is implicated and are deliberately playing it down.

Sadly that's not conspiracy rubbish - there's are precedents. Hillsborough for example. The police were at fault but the Sun and the authorities blamed the victims. It toom the families years to see any kind of justice. The right wing press are at it again, naming and shaming the guy who's fridge it was.

Also in the aftermath of the Stephen Lawrence murder the police sent undercover spies to infiltrate the grieving family's network, as they were worried about social unrest, rather than getting on with the job of bringing the killers to justice.

With Grenfrell Towers the will be shitting themselves about social unrest and it's not unreasonable to suggest the media and the government may be trying to manipulate the publuc mood. The Tories are likely shitting themselves about the effect this will have on their ability to stay in power - and to achieve their plans. Grenfrell shows people what austerity, cuts and profit-before-people culture leads to.

But now is not the time for a cover-up. The victims and survivors deserve better.

Why are our media not full of pictures of the many, many children who died? Their pictures are on the walls in West London.

If it had been done deliberately by a terrorist, don't you think we'd know a bit more about the victims and how many there were?

Damn right we would. Ask yourself why?

Your choice is to fan the flames of possible unrest or to ensure proper process and the calm, measured rule of law.

I think they are concluding that they will never be able to ID the people on the top floors.

There is definitely a poor response from the LA and government, TM has said this and they are now addressing it.

I think the difference is that in a terrorist incident, plans are well rehearsed and coordinated.

But the aftermath of this incident has not at all been well handled. I think you are seeing cock-up rather than conspiracy.

sleeping that's a good post. I see incompetence rather than malice and conspiracy but I'd love someone to tell me why the media coverage is not leading with the stories about the residents. The residents are being minimised in the coverage.

Can anyone think of a different recent tragedy involving children where they weren't front and centre of the coverage?

The media ARE downplaying the numbers and not focusing on the people who died in the same way they do in other tragedies.

This was thoroughly discussed in the thread.

It takes time to confirm the dead and the media have reported the numbers that have been confirmed, plus they have kept saying how many are still missing.
It's not the media's fault if people (you too) choose to ignore what the "missing" means.

What about the people already confirmed? They're not all over the front pages are they? A 5 year old boy was identified and named and died in the fire escape. No ones up in arms about that are they? No, but Lily fucking Allen gets 500 posts.