To be very worried about this behaviour?

[poopsqueak]

I am worried about my daughters behavioural changes over the past month.

She is 5 and bright and loud to begin with. We have a very stable family life although we have seen some 'big' events over the past month (bridesmaid duty, family holiday, very ill Grandma)

Over the past month we have seen an alarming switch to 'manic and aggressive' with intrusive thoughts.

Manic meaning fidgeting constantly, running everywhere, talking nonsense, not listening or trailing off in the middle of sentences and beginning a new conversation, unable to sleep, impulsive behaviour (stealing food from others plates).

Aggressive being shouting, swearing (in the 'child' sense, think 'shut up' 'stupid. 'hate you!') being violent to myself and her father, going from 0-100 (in terms of calm to raging) and not being able to calm down once she is up a height. She has also kicked the cat in her rage. We have told her we will get rid of him if we even think she might do that again, for his safety.

Intrusive thoughts are mostly about private parts (I'll spare you the details) but essentially the growing realisation that everyone has them, and that she wants to look at everyones all the time. Or saying that she is 'thinking about private parts' all the time. Shes also making up horrible songs/rhymes in her head (and telling us, in guilt) that she can't get out. Shes asking us constantly if we are going to 'tell on her' for every little infraction and believes the police/school are going to get her if she does anything wrong.

The worst ones are the things she has come out with such as 'I want to punch someone to death with my hands' and thinking the recent fire in london was 'really funny'.... I honestly dont know what to do. i think I am going to book an appointment with the GP for a chat as its (her behaviour) has changed so much in such a short period of time.

Has anyone had any experience of this before?
What would you advise?

My heart goes out to you, it all sounds very worrying.

There is surely to be a cause for your daughter's abrupt changes in behaviour. Obviously no one can diagnose the cause long distance and via internet. It is great that you have appointments scheduled with the school and the GP. I hope everyone involved takes this seriously and that you get some answers. You seem to have an open mind about what is going on, which I think is important since there could be so many possible sources for your DD's outbursts and intrusive thoughts.

for you both.

Another, less worrying option, is that maybe she is just looking for your reaction by talking about subjects such as private parts and death. Have you maybe made a big deal of these things not ever being spoken about or have her gp's? And she's testing to see how you react?
You are absolutely right to speak to gp/nspcc though as her behaviour could be due to a number of things.

Hope you get this sorted out soon, it must be very worrying for you.

I would mention to the school to keep an eye on the other little girl too.

OP I could have written this myself at the end of last year. My daughter had just turned 6 and started displaying similar behaviour including talking about killing herself. Six months later she's been placed on the spectrum and has OCD tendencies. I'm not a specialist nor diagnosing from my armchair but just too similar for me not to comment. I'll message you.

Sending hugs OP, you must be tearing your hair out with worry and frustration.

The comment about lady parts is disturbing. Perhaps linked to the game with the other girl. Did you ask her why?
I hope you have a restful weekend and gain some insight next week. xx

I was hoping for a restful weekend but it hasn't started well as she was naughty at my mums (even just being naughty at my mums wouldn't have happened 2 months ago) and my brother picked her up as she was trying to run away. He handed her to me and she wouldn't stop screaming about it 'he grabbed me! He grabbed me' even though from my perspective it wasn't that big a deal as he was stopping her running into a garage full of dangerous tools.

Then she got into the car with me screaming (/and I mean screaming not crying) and when she settled down she said she was thinking about running in front of cars and what would happen if she opened the door to the car (we were on a motorway). I said 'what do you think will happen?' And she said 'I could die, but I wouldn't do that, I just can't stop thinking about it.'

This GP appointment can't come quick enough for me. I'm at the end of my tether!

Knackered, yes I would love to hear from you in a DM.

Poor girl. I have no useful advice OP but I hope you get to the bottom of it for both of your sakes.

Gosh this is heartbreaking to read. Hope this is resolved soon for you all OP, here for a handhold throughout

How awful for you and your DD. I would be demented with all sorts of thoughts so am glad your appointments are on Monday (although I am guessing it will feel like an awfully long weekend for you) and hopefully they will be quick to act.

It sounds terrible, so upsetting h for you to see and deal with too.

Don't let the GP fob you off or say 'if it's not happening at school...'. Sometimes professionals act like this is right at the beginning of the symptoms just because it's the beginning of their experience with a case. Emphasis that this is the cumulation of so much stuff over months, not a couple of minor things you have trotted off immediately to see them about.

Good luck. I think you probably realise that all the different options can be looked at in parallel, versus in series. You don't have to screen out everything else and go for one possibility, like abuse, and stop looking at anything else...

has any of you been blunt and asked about abuse if anyone has touched her somewhere and that you can keep a secret if shes been told not to tell.that your her mummy so if anyone ever told her seomthing and that she shouldn't tell anyone that its different for mummy and there little girls you can tell mummy anything.
mit it be worth noting down all the things she has said.keep noting it down.it will help whoever you seek help with seethese things.so all you've bravely told us could be written dwn and then easier when maybe a stressful apt comes you don't have to wrakc your brains.
I'm so worried for you all.
don't give up.there are time in life when those we love can get so devastingly poorly.cancer.mental health liver desease it can hit in any way.this is another horrible thing to be faced with but like all the other issues/illness's traumas people do get through.and so can you.its take so much bravery and strength. but you can do it.
we have your back too.we do we do we do.

sorry I had to mention f** abuse again :( just with your lates post and to you relative grabbing her.
do you tell her when she mentions things like jumping out car "no! you must never do that.it would mean we would loose you and we love you so much we want you to be ok and happy"
if she is feeling unsafe these outlandish ways of getting injured to her young mind might be her only way of seeing that you can protect her?
keep filling her with reassurance that shes is safe.and if she reacts to not being so ask why not.

I know lots of people are mentioning OCD here however I have PTSD from sexual abuse and intrusive thoughts, anxiety, irrational fears, mood swings are all symptoms of it....
Hope you get to the bottom of this

Manic meaning fidgeting constantly, running everywhere, talking nonsense, not listening or trailing off in the middle of sentences and beginning a new conversation, unable to sleep, A lot of this is exactly how my daughters autism presents, op.

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP. I can't imagine how awful it must be for you and everyone who loves your daughter. You know her best and you've recognised the change in her behaviour and are supporting her. I hope you get the help you both need

I wish you every luck and hope your dd finds peace soon. My dd saw a child psychologist when she was about the same age as your dd. For a different concern. If you can afford to see one privately, I really cannot recommend it enough.

Thank you everyone for their help but in the most inappropriate stealing of a mumsnet thread ever, the Independent have stolen this thread and made an article of it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/child-sex-abuse-signs-parents-need-to-know-nspcc-mood-swings-aggressive-bed-wetting-paedophilia-a7793686.html?cmpid=facebook-

That is horrendous! I'm so sorry OP

Fucking hell. I'd complain to NSPCC for commenting on this

It's not such an issue that you are comfortable being naked as a family.

But why is she seeing grandma naked?

When does that happen if she just visits. Does "grumpy" also take off his clothes when she visits? That part seems more unusual.

Disgraceful of the Independent. Really intrusive.

Oh OP I'm so sorry! I just hope there were some helpful thoughts and suggestions for you before the journo grabbed it and ruined your line of support! I commented up thread, but again would reiterate that if you can possibly afford it, take her to a private psychologist (linked to NHS)in the first instance. The NHS have wonderful services, but the waiting times are too long for what she's experiencing. I would also reduce down the amount of people she's alone with until you've gotten to the bottom of it all. No person can be above suspicion, and so far none of the various scenarios offered have been ruled out. Could be anything or could be nothing, but maybe reduce some of her activities and people she's with if you can, to begin with. For people saying pp are jumping to conclusions over abuse, well actually the people saying it seem to be either like myself, who works with vulnerable families, and had done tonnes of child protection training, or have been abused themselves. Also could be any of the other possibilities suggested, as symptoms of things do cross over. As an example, in my line of work, if you told me all of these things about your child, I would have no choice but to tell you that unfortunately I have to break our confidentiality agreement and inform social services. We are trained to look for these signs, and as horrible as it is, your dd is displaying them. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you saw lots of doctors and they concluded OCD, as again there are many crossovers. All you can do from now is push to see someone and get answers. I wish you all the best OP for you and your little DD, this is all just so heartbreaking.

FFS The Independent, this is completely inappropriate 😡😡😡

poopsqueak you've had some amazing support and advice on this thread, ignore the lazy journalism 😚

I have no advice regarding your DD, so i'm sorry for that. i really hope your school appointment and GP appointment are of huge help to you.

The independent taking this story is awful - but hopefully if other mothers read it, they may identify abuse in their homes. Although i really hope it is not the case for you.

Best of Luck OP