To think 7.30 is late enough?

[EssieTregowan]

It's all kicking off in my street.

There's a terrace of five houses, all families with kids of varying ages, and a small block of flats next to it which is mainly couples. The rest of the estate is detached houses.

All the terrace kids play out the front. And now the evenings are lighter lots of them don't come in until 9pm or later. And they are LOUD. Bikes, water pistols, balls, shrieking etc.

One of the mums has complained on our estate FB page and asked nicely that the kids are brought in at 7.30 as she is struggling with hers at bedtime when they can hear the others playing out. The flats residents are backing her up and the other mums are getting shirty and defensive. Insults are flying.

I'm staying out of it (I live down the other end and although I can hear them it doesn't disturb my kids) but I think that actually she's quite right and it's really antisocial.

The loud kids mum's are now saying if it's a problem they should complain to the HA. It's now come to light that they all had a letter last summer from the HA saying that if it didn't improve they'd enforce a curfew.

I'm sort of watching from the sidelines with my jaw open. My kids don't play out as we have a big garden, but I get them indoors by 7.30 if they are being loud as our neighbours at the back have younger children.

It's just common courtesy, isn't it? I'm a bit surprised tbh as they're usually all very neighbourly.

Anyway, what do you all think? How late is too late to be out playing loudly on a school night?

this is how we're raising a generation of entitled children

I agree, imagine the degree of entitlement one has to feel when trying to shut up the world for one's own 7:30 bedtime!

You have miserable neighbours

Adults are not entitled to live anywhere they please and expect no noise.

This isn't about expecting to live with 'no noise' though, this is about some parents not accepting that their children are making too much noise. The fact the op has mentioned that several people seem to be annoyed suggests there is a problem, and some parents minimise it by saying 'kids being kids' as if that excuses a whole range of behaviour. We wouldn't put up with adults screaming up and down the street, slamming footballs into other people's houses and scratching cars, why on earth would anyone excuse children doing it?

Well said @chillipepper and @paxillan

Demanding the world shuts down for you at half seven in the evening is way more entitled than kids wanting to play.

And yeah the 55 to 75-ish age group tend to have more people who are entitled and demanding and think the world revolves around them than any other age group. Not all people this age are bad of course, but there will be more old curmudgeons in that age group than any other. Indeed, many 80+ people I know are lovely. It's that boomer age group.

This miserable entitled couple I was on about are in that age group (both 58!) I mean FFS, they moved into a cul de sac with 4 and 5 bed FAMILY HOMES, in a rural area, then complain about the sound of children and farm noises. Idiots.

I agree, imagine the degree of entitlement one has to feel when trying to shut up the world for one's own 7:30 bedtime!

This suggests to me people reaching the end of their tether to be honest. I'd quite happily have the neighbours children not be out on our street at all, because of how loud they can be. I'm sick of my windows sounding like they're about to break, a friend not visiting because their car was damaged, loud screaming at all hours. Not because I'm some horrible child hater, because this is anti social behaviour that their parents should be dealing with. A bit of noise is absolutely normal, but unless you've lived with the above you really don't know how bad it can be.

We wouldn't put up with adults screaming up and down the street, slamming footballs into other people's houses and scratching cars, why on earth would anyone excuse children doing it?

I am not defending vandalism or the breaking of windows.

But we do put up with "adult noise" all the time. Traffic, drills, lawn mowers etc etc etc, we just think that is necessary. It's comical in my situation. I live in central London and my kids were out playing and I was trying to tell them to keep it down but they couldn't hear me over all the sirens. There is plenty of non-child noise going on here. it's just that you can't complain about it to anybody who will listen.

The OP can be in an entirely different situation from me. I don't live where he/she lives, so I can't say who is being reasonable. What I can say is I have first hand experience with people who think the communal garden should have the sound environment of a library, despite there being playground equipment there and it clearly being set up for playing. in my case there are no dented cars (it's a back garden) and no broken windows. it's just adult whiners moaning.

7.30 is far too early.

So it's the people in the big houses v the terraced house people?

Agree with the others 7.30 is far too early in Summer 9 is a perfectly reasonable time, my 3 year old was out till 8 last night both my girls have a later bedtime in the summer. It's good for children to play outside.

no generation is as entitled as the current 55+

Many 80+ people I know are loveky

What strange assumptions and bollocks people post sorry but anyone of any age can be entitled and equally lovely.

I know entitled teens, 20/30:/40/50/60/70/80/90 year olds snd some not so.

Nothing to do with a generation

I think 9 isn't too bad, but at least tell the little darlings to keep the noise down after 8.

@waitforitfdear

nah, the boomer generation definitely have more rude and entitled people than any other.

7.30pm is stupidly early for what will be only a handful of days each year. I think its ok to ask that some of the louder noises are curtailed if they are constant but bikes and scooters are not noisy (unless petrol driven). Kids and parents shouting and having fun and playing is just part of life. Asking children to stop being children is anti-social.

"If you decide to Iive near a green, expect noise"

I do, until about 9pm at night. Anything later than that is unfair. Just because you live beside a green, it doesn't mean anything goes and you have no right to reasonable consideration.

The curfew's not the problem. Playing out is not the problem. Screaming is the problem. If a parent is out supervising/controlling the noise - 9 is fine. Otherwise, 7:30 is quite generously late really, for unsupervised screaming.

not

Right that follows your own extensive research does it or are we talking your mil

I do, until about 9pm at night. Anything later than that is unfair.

unfair?

Really, how unreasonable is it? closed windows won't block it out?

I know entitled teens, 20/30:/40/50/60/70/80/90 year olds snd some not so.

Of course. I was simply countering the idea so often put out that this current generation of high rent, no ownership, high tuition and no pensions is entitled. An accusation often levelled by generations that have had all of those things.

Really, how unreasonable is it? closed windows won't block it out?

Why on earth should people have to shut their windows in summer, because some children haven't been taught to play quieter games in the evenings?

Of course. I was simply countering the idea so often put out that this current generation of high rent, no ownership, high tuition and no pensions is entitled. An accusation often levelled by generations that have had all of those things.

As someone who is living 'in that generation', I have no idea why that's relevant. This is about neighbours realising everyone deserves some peace and quiet in the evenings (though not total silence, as that is unreasonable). I don't see what renting and pensions have to do with expecting children not to scream or kick balls against houses?

It depends on the noise really.

When mine were small there was a small group of girls who used to sit on the wall opposite our house and the squealing was ridiculously loud. I
Just used to go out and say that I had just put my little ones to bed so could they either squeal quietly or go and do it somewhere else. It normally worked.

When mine were old enough to be the ones playing out I called them over at 8 and reminded them that some people were sleeping and if anyone had to tell them to be quiet then they would have to come inside.

@Highalert, no it's a mum in the terrace asking the other mums to keep their kids quiet. A couple of people from the flats have chimed in and one of the detached neighbours. The rest of us are just staying out of it. I don't do drama.

Yes Chlili unfair.

And yes, some kids are so loud that closed windows don't block it out.

Also, why should people have to try and sleep in stifling bedrooms with no air on a hot night because of a handful of inconsiderate parents?

I think nokid has the right attitude. It's all about compromise. If someone asks your kids to keep the noise down a bit, or to kick their ball somewhere else because your baby is just going to sleep is it really that big a deal for them to pipe down or move on and for them to do the same for you in similar circumstances?

Why do some parents nowadays turn everything into a battle about 'rights' and 'entitlements'?

Why on earth should people have to shut their windows in summer, because some children haven't been taught to play quieter games in the evenings?

because it's a simple solution to the problem of sharing space? it requires almost zero effort? it doesn't require telling people not use a public space as it was intended to be used?

As someone who is living 'in that generation', I have no idea why that's relevant.

it's not relevant. I didn't bring it up. It was in response to the "entitled generation" comment.

expecting children not to scream or kick balls against houses?

again, it really depends on what we are talking about. if that is happening, it doesn't matter what time of the day it is happening, that's always unreasonable. if someone is screaming outside your window, it doesn't matter if it's noon or 10pm. Ditto for balls against your house.

but this is clearly not an issue about absolute noise. It seems to me the person living near the green isn't complaining about play noise at 2pm, even though the noise is likely louder then. It's about expecting it to be relatively quiet at 8pm.

because it's a simple solution to the problem of sharing space?

Its not a 'simple solution' though, is it? Closing windows equals warm/hot houses. How is that fair?

again, it really depends on what we are talking about. if that is happening, it doesn't matter what time of the day it is happening, that's always unreasonable

The op specifically mentioned that screaming and playing ball games are some of the issues here, so the Ines complaining aren't being unreasonable, are they?