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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Labour should save their political point scoring re Granffell tower for later on

314 replies

angelcakerocks · 14/06/2017 20:28

I'm actually quite disgusted that Labour are yet again using a tragedy to score political points (as they did with the terrorist incident) so soon after the event.
Yes questions need to be asked, but it seems inappropriate to be doing that right now, when we should all be pulling together and focusing on the victims of this awful accident. There is no need for the political point scoring today.

OP posts:
NotACleverName · 15/06/2017 19:51

I'd always question the motives of someone trying to depoliticise something that is in fact inherently political, so YABU, OP.

sweetbitter · 15/06/2017 19:52

I think it seems extremely unrealistic to seize empty foreign-owned property, but thos is nonetheless an opportune moment to raise the subject of overseas millionaire buying up London property as an investment which sits empty for most of the year.

Hermagsjesty · 15/06/2017 19:57

I don't know how realistically achieveable it would be to requisition property. But when 1000s of properties are sitting empty while traumatised families sleep on the floor of a sports centre, surely it's worth exploring?

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:02

I think the cost of it would mean even less money for a permanent solution, mag.

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:06

I think it shows what labour thinks of people's ability to own property. A very slippery slope. Be careful what you wish for with JC and McDonnell (the latter whipping up the unions to get a million people to protest in London on 1 July, ffs. How much will that cost in terms of policing etc that could go towards helping the Grenfell tower victims or the NHS or schools or pretty much anything really - May is doing a fucking good job of shooting herself out of place).

sleeponeday · 15/06/2017 20:10

The residents association stated on a public post, back in November, that there would be a catastrophe sooner rather than later. They said that a devastating fire, with great loss of life, in Grenfell Tower was the most likely way this would happen. That until there was such an event, which they warned was going to happen, nobody would hold the council's chosen private management company to account for the way they were playing Russian roulette with tenant's lives Post was dated November 20th 2016.

They said the electrical wiring was poor and random power surges went through the outlets. This would one day start an electrical fire. The source of the fire is stated right now as being a fridge.

Once the fire started, there was one way down - one central stairwell - which was not large enough for all the people to use speedily enough to evacuate everyone. It was not physically possible to get all residents safely out.

There were no sprinklers. According to all residents, nor were there functioning fire alarms. The advice, clearly written on the fire safety notices in the block, was that they shelter in place (in their flats) and waited for the emergency services.

When you clad a building with a material whose inner core is very flammable; you don't provide more than one escape route and you tell people not to use it; you don't provide sprinklers or fire alarms; and the place is run by a profit driven private company who are making money from a wafer-thin budget provided for social housing tenants... then it's a political issue.

Corbyn put forward a bill to ensure all rentals had to be safe for human habitation. That would have meant enforceable legal requirements for the sort of safety measures needed, but lacking, in Grenfell Tower. It was voted down by the Conservatives, including 72 MPs who were private landlords. My own was on that list, incidentally. They all have blood on their hands today.

I do roll my eyes when people bleat that politics shouldn't be involved in X, Y or Z situation which is inherently related to politics. This is an issue of underfunding social housing, of involving private sector companies in provision where the nature of capitalism means they'll try to cut corners in any way they can and without stiff penalty, that will include safety... and finally, it's about cuts to the emergency services. The stellar work they did and are still doing, and their courage in risking terrible injury and death, doesn't change the fact that Boris Johnson closed more than one local fire station in the past decade. When called on that, and how dangerous it was, by a Labour councillor, he told him to "get stuffed".

This is a democracy - politics is how we all decide how to look after one another, and what steps to take and spending to undertake in order to do that. Politics isn't some dirty little thing we should keep in a closet. It's the mechanism for improving lives. At its best, it's amazing. Inspirational. The NHS that treated the victims is down to politics. So is the housing provided to the most vulnerable in our society. And if that housing was allowed to descend into deathtrap status, politics is how we sort that and ensure more people do not burn to death while their children scream.

See, that's the most unpalatable truth of all. Right now, people care. Right now, people post on Mumsnet and every other fora and news site out there. Right now, Katie fucking Hopkins seems to have used a microscope and located her heart, and she's as outraged as anyone else. But in a month, that will change. Just as people were so distressed to see a little toddler drown as he crossed the sea to Greece, and there was a huge outpouring of aid, and now they've moved on and don't seem to know or care that nothing has changed or improved, so too will people move on and lose interest in ensuring that this doesn't happen again. The time to engage people and get them motivated, and to get them to comprehend that the very poor are actual human beings just like themselves, is now. Right now. If we want pressure on those capable of doing anything, then we need to ask the hard questions while the white heat of media attention is on them. Waiting could mean nothing is done, which in turn could mean it happens again... and meanwhile, a lot of people will live in horrendous housing. Because small babies dying from respiratory illness may not make for great pictures on the news, but it sure as hell happens all to often in the world's 7th largest economy in 2017. And nobody seems to give a shit.

Good for Corbyn. Good for anyone trying to harness current outrage to affect change.

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 15/06/2017 20:11

Wow dandan you are a master of twisting.

The Tories actions have been so vile many people will protest. But the main thing is the protesters will cost money by needing policing.

Screwed up thinking or what

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 15/06/2017 20:11

I'm going to march
Im sure my taxes will pay but thanks for asking. Mind you I'm pretty sure the Met budget wouldn't be used for Grenfell or the NHS etc. You may want to look at how budgets are actually allocated

Hermagsjesty · 15/06/2017 20:19

Dandandan - I'm sorry, but I do think it's a bit rich to talk about how much a protest march might cost given the Tories have just spent 130 million pounds of public money on an unnecessary election (an election they promised they wouldn't call) that has left the country in a more unstable position than it was. But this thread probably isn't the place for that discussion. Except to say protests and righteous anger have an important place in our democracy and should be protected and celebrated.

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:21

Yeah and I'm pretty sure your taxes won't cover it.

It won't change anything. As I said, May is changing it all by herself. But why let that put you off enjoying a circle jerk and patting yourself on the back?

There are things you could do with your time that would be far more useful, you know. If you really wanted to help, instead of seeing yourself as some marvellous warrior of justice.

sleeponeday · 15/06/2017 20:22

The Conservatives have spent 16 billion on the implementation of Universal Credit. That's fully 1% of GDP. Those figures are provided by the Institute of Fiscal Studies.

Completely understand, of course, why their responsibilities made that so much more essential than provision of housing for state tenants meeting the most basic safety standards.

Incidentally, we'll be told not to be silly when paying to police Prince Harry's wedding, as we were over Prince William's. Interesting how that is affordable, but protests over our own citizens avoidably burning to death in council housing is just an extravagant waste.

sleeponeday · 15/06/2017 20:26

Dananddan, are you posting from Momentum as a caricature?

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 15/06/2017 20:30

Dan I don't know your little idiocracys but wankng in circles is not one of mine. Thanks for your wonderful gutteral slightly pathetic insult.

You want me to explain budgets to you? PS You have no idea how much tax I pay do you?

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:30

no. Just pointing out that perhaps donating a day to work for a charity or to do something practical or sponsored to raise more funds for the victims would perhaps be more useful than marching around London. But hey, what's that compared to a smug picture of me with a placard to post on my Facebook echo chamber?!

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:33

I don't give a shit how much tax you pay - it won't cover policing costs for the march of a million people that McDonnell wants to rouse!

MissEliza · 15/06/2017 20:33

How about the billionaires and millionaires of London doing what Oprah etc did after Hurricane Katrina and paying for new homes to be built for those made homeless?

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 15/06/2017 20:33

What have you done for the cause dandan

explodingkittens · 15/06/2017 20:34

Oh because obviously charity work or practical help and marching are mutually exclusive. You have to sign a contract when you march promising that you'll never evah evah do anything else helpful or charitable. Don't you?

Jesus, I'm so glad I'm not you.

BossaDad · 15/06/2017 20:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

explodingkittens · 15/06/2017 20:37

I have started an AIBU thread with details of the march for those who are interested.

Obviously only social justice warriors or people who enjoy wanking each other off should read it, though.

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:38

Finally - I live v near there. DP and I have donated over £1k of stuff and cash so far and have rounded up donations from friends outside London. We're trying to organise an event for the kids in Holland Park when things have settled down a tiny bit. Plus one of the charities I work for does work with children in that area; i am organising help and events through them too. Will that do?!

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:39

Good for you, exploding.

And when it achieves the arse end of fuckall, I hope you're proud of yourself :)

Dandandandandandandan · 15/06/2017 20:40

Eliza - that would be fab but land is the problem - where would they go? The people who've lost their homes don't want to have to move out of the area they know :(

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 15/06/2017 20:42

Very admirable.

However marching and trying to remove Tories will also potentially help many many people.

explodingkittens · 15/06/2017 20:43

No one this thread needs to justify themselves to you, dandan, despite your attempts at goading.

Swipe left for the next trending thread