To think Labour should save their political point scoring re Granffell tower for later on

[angelcakerocks]

I'm actually quite disgusted that Labour are yet again using a tragedy to score political points (as they did with the terrorist incident) so soon after the event.
Yes questions need to be asked, but it seems inappropriate to be doing that right now, when we should all be pulling together and focusing on the victims of this awful accident. There is no need for the political point scoring today.

It's not about point scoring so much as fact finding.
Who?
What?
Why?
When?
How?

The people need answers.

angel why can we do both at once? We can help people and ask tough questions. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If you're just sitting around feeling sad for people then how are you actually helping them?

Initially I did think the same, then I started to read some of the stuff about how these tenants have been treated and how they've raised concerns time and time again when have been ignored. Nobody gave a shit as they were just council house tenants.

It's taken this catastrophic event for people to realise what's been going on and for the media to finally give them a voice.

This isn't about point scoring, it's about calling out the politicians who have allowed this to happen and holding them to account.

If it turns out, as is being speculated, that part of the reason they clad the building in that stuff is to make it look more appealing to people living in more affluent areas, then that is disgraceful.

The gentrification of London is forcing out ordinary working class people who've always lived there. That is a political issue.

While the timing is not necessarily great he has a valid point, these issues have clearly been brought up on a number of occasions and not been acted upon, recommendations were made to government about how such a tragedy could be avoided and it was deemed unnecessary and over cautious to mandate working sprinkler systems and other such safety measures! Indications are that this was due to the financial impact of strengthening the building regs (allegedly the Tory housing minister was on record advising it would put developers off building social housing if they had to spend more money on safety measures to ensure compliance!) With this information coming out it is clear that it is a political issue!

I agree its a political issue but I think its disrespectful not to just wait for a bit and also I think its unhelpful at this stage to stir up anger blaming the big bad wolves the tories before we even know yet what happened and how it happened.

No doubt it will all come to light and political points can be made then, rightly so. But at the moment there is the huge crisis itself still happening, which needs to be dealt the main news imo.

The former housing minister Gavin Barwell (now of No 10 Downing St fame) had shelved a report on fire safety for four years. Pointing this out is NOT point scoring. Do we keep quiet for another four years and wait for the next one? Fuck that.

*be dealt with which is the main news

Wait for a bit? Many of us live in such blocks. I am not prepared to wait for a bit. Neither should the Grenfell residents have had to wait.

no I don't think that paxilin not at all. But four years is one thing, less than 24 hours later seems too soon to me. The focus should be on those affected. As in the immediate focus on those suffering right now, and later to look at all the ins and outs and who's to blames.

As I said on another thread, Diana Spencer has a lot to answer for.

The people who live in tower blocks like this want answers and actions not maudlin words.

ODFOD. YABU

Just another example of an attempt to shut down very valid questions.

x post. Fair enough. I can see your point of view.

It is a political issue, and a social, class, and council issue. Should we all bury our heads in the sand and pretend that this wasn't preventable? I'm sure that those effected and bereaved are beyond devastated and will be angry at how this could have happened. They deserve to see those responsible being held to account. How did the fire/health and safety procedures fail so appallingly. When I moved into my house and had to have everything ripped out and rewired etc, they were constantly going on about how they had to reconnect the new mains/integral fire alarms before they left each evening as we were living here while the work was going on and it was the law etc. They would not leave us without a mains powered fire alarm. The mains also have to have a backup battery. When one alarm goes off, if you don't turn it off manually within 60 seconds, it triggers the rest to go off on the other floors. It is extremely sensitive, and was again told that it had to be by law. Shortly after moving in, the fire brigade turned up to check that we had all the correct fire alarms under the current law. Since then, about a year after and every year since, the fire brigade have come along and gone up and down the street checking people's fire alarms. Why? Why has my street been given super duper (maybe overzealous) fire safety programmes, and if all of this is the law - why was the law not applied in this case? So whoever was responsible for the law not being applied, surely broke the law, and needs to be brought to book. As far as I recall, it was a Tory decision to impose cuts to our fire services, local councils, and police. Should nobody ever mention this?

sorry that was to paxillin
ok I will FO as requested

Being sad doesn't solve this issue. Finding out who is to blame does.

We have Members of Parliament who actively support reducing H&S "red tape", and go out of their way to block it where they can. This would still be political had the block been private. That it was social housing only makes it more so.

No doubt it will all come to light and political points can be made then, rightly so
Only if someone shines a torch on it. There has been so many cover ups. You can already hear the companies involved passing the buck

It is the proper job of politicians to hold people to account. And quickly. And not give them time to get their stories straight. Just like it is the job of firefighters to put out fires and rescue people and of doctors to mend people. Nobody says they should hold off doing their job for a day or two out of respect, do they?

I don't see how Theresa May is responsible for this though.

I don't think anyone is blaming Theresa May! Successive governments have failed to address safety in tower blocks like these.

Bossa I was a bit by that too, although to be fair if they didn't pause talks I'd probably still be

I think people are more angry at the board of the block, the private housing association and the MPs who voted against stricter fire safety standards. But they whole thing does have a common Tory thread.

Why should people keep quiet? To give those who have been incompetent time to get stuff through the shredders? Or for it to drop off the front pages so it can be shoved under the carpet again?

This is a class issue, it is a political issue. Tory politicians have been repeatedly voting against policies that would have improved fire safety and made social housing fit for habitation. They have repeatedly voted in favour of cuts to the services that would check fire regulations are being held to, cuts to the emergency services we rely on to save out lives.

How long are people supposed to keep quiet for?