To think Labour should save their political point scoring re Granffell tower for later on

[angelcakerocks]

I'm actually quite disgusted that Labour are yet again using a tragedy to score political points (as they did with the terrorist incident) so soon after the event.
Yes questions need to be asked, but it seems inappropriate to be doing that right now, when we should all be pulling together and focusing on the victims of this awful accident. There is no need for the political point scoring today.

YABVU.
The Tories said "we have had enough of experts", which is what led to the tragedy at Grenfell Tower.

Cuts to legal aid mean low income families do not have access to the judicial system.

Cutskill

And so it seems do Cu*ts that make them. We have to see corporate manslaughter charges for the loss of life at Grenfell. People have to learn that people matter

I do think it's a bit disingenuous that people are saying it's not political, if this situation isn't political then what is?

"TM clearly knows the emergency services have more important things to do than pose for the cameras with her."

How does that excuse her not talking to the residents and community leaders? Because that's who Jeremy Corbyn has been talking to.

From what I am reading this cladding seems to be a cheap-fix solution for a few things.

It looks like what happened (at this stage - still early) is that when fire gets between the cladding and the building (there is a space for ventilation), the heat rises sucking in fresh air which feeds the combustion.

It is like a bellows at a foundry, turbocharging the inferno. The building in the footage looks like it is super-heated, incandescent.

I am reading that there is no sprinkler system either...and only the one stairwell (which could have been filled with smoke and fumes).

I don't think fire crews had a chance of putting this thing out once the process got going.

MissEliza: "TM clearly knows the emergency services have more important things to do than pose for the cameras with her."

And what about ordinary residents? Do they have more important things to do than pose for the cameras with her?

Or is it that she has more important things to do than talk to them?

J C is doing his job as leader of the opposition and holding the government to account. This is a political matter and lives have been lost because of political decisions. We can't give the government an easy ride on this.

What is more i.portant than the people you profess to serve at a time of loss disbelief and worry

A leader leads from the front and steps up when required. May is not a leader. Should should not be PM...and she knows it

It's very hard to not politicise this when Jeremy Corbyn has been fighting for better housing regulation for 30 years. Labour councillors in Kensington also brought up the danger of these tower blocks several times, as did David Lammy and the residents' association of the tower itself. They were ignored.

Add to that the fact that the former housing minister Gavin Barwell sat on a report criticising the fire safety of these blocks for four years as well as the fact the cladding was put on only for cosmetic reasons...

PLUS, in 2016 Labour tabled an amendment to make all housing 'fit for human habitation' with certain regulations, with support from the SNP and other parties. The Tories voted it down, including 70-odd MPs who are landlords.

Sorry, but I can see why Corbyn is angry and why it has been made political. It IS political. Yet again, it's shown that Austerity is killing people.

This is so not about JC and his ego. He should watch his bloody tone. Of course there are questions to be answered and a Public Inquiry will do it.

Ficklemarket

His tone? He is furious - wouldn't you be? Should he just say "oh dear"? No, I'm glad to see a politician who is raging at the injustice and shamefulness of something like this happening.

Every politician with a soul should be raging about this.

Not the time to score personal points.
We are all fucking horrified and outraged.

"We are all fucking horrified and outraged."

One certainly hopes so.

Ficklemarket your comments are out of order.

JC is continuing to stand up for people whose voices have been ignored even when they feared for their safety - and sadly those fears have been realised.

The system has let them down, so badly. Saying it's OK a public enquiry has been called is not enough. Enquiries can be white washes.

Saying we are all horrified is a cop out and accusing JC of exercising his ego because he cares enough to do something about this is fucking shameful.

Ficklemarket

It absolutely is. When feelings are raw, someone has to show the failings of those responsible.

It is political. Tories have been in power for 7 years and have not listened to any of the recommendations in various reports, and have done everything to make social housing and renting even worse than it already is. We deserve to know WHY.

Theresa May can't be allowed to sit here and say how awful it is, when her party have cut things for 7 years. Austerity KILLS. There used to be 3 fire stations within 90 second response of the tower that burnt down. Now all closed. Some firefighters who were first response ended up working 18 hour shifts because there just weren't enough personnel to have a regular rotation. That is what constant cuts have done.

Tories shouldn't get to praise the emergency services when during the election campaign they said "there is no magic money tree" to give public sector workers a pay rise. What an utter disgrace that party is.

Tories make cuts.
People die.
Other people say people opposing cuts are playing politics and being rude.
Tories continue making cuts...

You can't not turn this political. Decisions made by Tories affected it.
Politics isn't some remote thing. Corbyn is trying to help people.

The Hillsborough victims and the Bloody Sunday victims had to fight for years for a Public Inquiry.
We are all feeling raw with the dreadful shameful event.
If it turns out that cuts and wanton disregard for human habitation are the reasons for this then he is quite right along with everyone else to be angry and to use his position as a filter for public anger.
But being a distraction now is not helpful.

He's standing up for the victims. They want answers; they need to see justice at work.

How can it be too soon for them?

Ficklemarket do you live in the area? Because what you are saying is the exact opposite of what the locals want and its rather more their business than yours.

This IS a political situation,

Cuts cuts cuts and austerity.

Cladding to improve the appearance of the block for others looking at it.

Disregard of fire risks...you can bet had the block housed millionaires the risks would not have been disregarded.

The tenants were seen as problematic, scroungers, poor and not worthy of listening to.

They will be listened to now...shame its taken a massive death toll before it's happened.

It IS political because these were people who "didn't matter" to the Government or society thanks to draconian cuts and a media who have followed a narrative of poor = your fault. Too many people in society have meekly swallowed it all.

I will back Corbyn to the hilt on asking questions.

And at least he did meet people and offer comfort unlike St Theresa who didn't bother.

After the floods a couple of years ago David Cameron went out of his way to visit people.

The Conservatives have lost their way, they've forgotten that human beings are affected by their policies and their disregard. They deserve every little bit of shit currently being flung at them and then some.

I'm in Manchester and know all about housing blocks and people being discarded by the authorities.
If the local people are happy for him to use the approach he's using then he should carry on.

The reason Hillsborough and Bloody Sunday victims had to fight for their enquiries is because we didn't have social media then. We didn't have a savvy public taking photos and recording events immediately shared.

All we had was a media determined to distort the truth and blame the victims.