This is why we get so annoyed at incompetent/lazy/uncaring/you name it husbands

[ExpatTrailingSpouse]

Had friends over day before DS and I came back to UK to visit family for 2.5 weeks. the husband was H's friend from school, and we've since all become pretty good friends (i.e. not just my friends).

Leftover cut-up carrots and some lettuce from dinner in a couple containers in the fridge. I say to H - will you eat these as DS and I are going to be gone and can't? (since they are things i know he would eat otherwise). He says yes. I say, ok, if you don't want to eat them just throw it out and wash the tubs. Also half the lettuce that I didn't use is still in a bag in fridge.

Get home 2.5 weeks later. the carrots are going slimy, and i haven't even dared look in the container with the chopped lettuce, let alone the bag with the half lettuce. It's now almost a week since we got back and it's all still sitting there.

Am I crazy? I didn't tell him he had to eat it. If he'd said in the first place he had no intention of eating it, I'd probably have thrown it out or offered some to friends/neighbours I know don't mind taking food that would otherwise get wasted. And told him that if he didn't eat it before he went off, just chuck it.

If I don't clear it out, it will sit in the fridge til i get fed up and point it out to him. But I shouldn't even have to point it out to him. He was at home for almost 3 weeks by himself, and it's not like they were hidden or anything. These items were pretty much the only things in the fridge when i left, and the only things in the fridge when i got back.

He had another woman and went on a 2 week holiday with her
Isn't the fridge the least of your worries Expat? How did you recover from that?

Inertia - thanks for reading again. you probably have seen a few - i post every now and then when i start to feel like i can't cope with it until my situation is sorted. now being one of those times. i know he isn't going to change, i'm waiting for the time when i can get out and not risk losing DS.

picards - in the US so no, he's not home from work yet today. i was kind of leaving it to see just how long he would let it rot in the fridge for i guess - maybe going for some kind of record?

ElGato - i have some other posts about my situation, no recovery in this situation, waiting out some legal issues. I wish I had been on MN at the time I found out, because i don't think this post would exist (as in i'd have ltb long ago).

Haha, my DH is always complaining I leave stuff and he has to chuck it out! Maybe he doesn't mind. You sound like a nag, to be honest. Lighten up.

I think there is more to this OP, but I can certainly understand your frustration. I am a SAHM and I love my DH with all my heart but he drives me mad with his complete inability to complete any domestic task without me nagging or walking him through it. The other day I asked him to pick up some milk from the shops on his way home. I rang him before he left work to remind him to pick up milk. He then rang me from the car on his way home asking me what he needed to get from the shop and after I told him for the THIRD time, said 'will you just text it to me so I don't forget?'. He has to ring me to check if he ever needs the kids' dob etc for forms. He collects our son every week from the same after school club, and every week he rings me to ask what time he has to pick him up. I now liase with his PA re school events he needs to attend as I know she will make sure it goes in his diary. When I used to tell him about them he would nod then forget all about it (and not notice it written on our wall planner) and then be rushing around trying to rejig his meetings. I shit you not, he's a nightmare. (He would also never think to throw away rotting food from the fridge.)

During the day he manages to run a decent sized company but at home he acts as though he's helpless. He would never do any household task unless I ask. But I have to ask a minimum of 5 times to get anything at all done, so I only ever ask for help with things I really really don't want to do or that I can't do myself because I hate being a nag. Then when he notices that I've done a job that he might usually do he says 'oh, I was going to do that this weekend'. I blame myself for allowing this to happen but I'm at the end of my tether with it. I'm a SAHM not a bloody skivvy. He does have good qualities and is very thoughtful in other ways but I think he genuinely doesn't think this stuff is important, whereas to me, this is my life and I can't rely on him to remember/do anything so it's hugely important. So yes OP, I can definitely relate and by the length of my whinge I think I needed to vent too

Yanbu OP. It is NOT petty, it is NOT "no biggie" and it is a massive issue and a massive problem. I have left my exP. largely over this issue, and his shit attitude to being asked to do stuff, which he won't do without being asked.

It might be petty if you had an equal relationship and both took equal responsibility and shared the work fairly, and he slipped up once. But that's not the situation, as it isn't for so many people. It's knowing nothing like this will get done if you don't either do it yourself or nag - and often not even then. Then you have an uneven dynamic where you have the mental load and all the responsibility, PLUS you are seen as a nagging cow

Each little thing may not impact you that much, but the general attitude and the mountain of extra work and ill-feeling it causes really do have a huge impact. They steal your spare time, they upset you, they damage your respect for and attraction to your partner, they cause you stress and anger that's not healthy for you.

And so many people, mostly men, get away with it by arguing that you are being "petty" because "it's only a little thing" and you must be so uptight or anal to care. And they get away with it because armies of otherwise perfectly sane women excuse it by making out that men can't be expected to cope with this stuff. Men who can hold down complex jobs and learn complex skills easily when they want to.

I was responsible for it ALL in our 18-year relationship, and that includes the mortgage and finances, the DIY, the house admin as well as the housework. I did make a huge fuss and insisted on him joining in, but I had to do that over and over and over again, and anyway that still made me the one with the responsibility, the mental load. Plus often as not he'd "forget" anyway. Often if I delegated something to him, which I shouldn't have had to do anyway, it would simply go undone, no mater how important it was.

It DOES matter OP and I hope that with awareness of mental load and wifework as terms/issues, it will become more recognised.

For myself I came to the conclusion he would never, ever get it and I had to leave, and it's a huge relief.

Well, my DH is still a 'D'H and I can see him doing something like this. With all good intentions to eat whatever-it-is he'd tell me to leave it in the fridge and then promptly forget about it. I don't consider it that big a deal, and I'd probably just toss containers and all out (unless the container was a 'pricy' fridge glass one. Plastic containers are cheap and not worth causing a ruckus over.

It's obvious that your problems are much more serious than just some rotten food.

Actually i was doing this while he went off on a 2 week holiday with OW (that i thought was a work trip)

Wait...what? Why are you still there?

Holy hell, just seen about the other woman. Are you sure he wasn't with her when he should've been home eating the food that's gone slimy? I see no redeeming qualities here. LTB

Eventually it will be me that has to clear it up because he couldn't care less.

Well, you probably know your husband by now that it would go that way.

Irritating yes.

I would have chucked it anyway before leaving on a trip. Hate coming home to rotting food in the fridge..

That's an interesting article mumbles

My OH doesn't do anything around the house other than cooking (and only if I tell him I can't be bothered) and I'm not sure he even knows how to work half the appliances. I sometimes think MN would go mad if they were a fly on a wall in our house, but it seems to work for us. I think these niggles become intolerable when there are other issues in a relationship. And that's understandable.

DP once left the house with an extra fleece, realised it was too warm, so flung it through the back door onto the back kitchen floor as he rushed off to work. I think I was out all day or something, so for whatever reason I didn't really pay any attention, whereas I would normally have picked it up. He came home from work, walked over it and carried on the evening. Then walked over it again in the morning. I chuckled to myself and decided to see how long it would be until he thought to pick it up. I think another two days passed and in the end I said 'is this a new rug now then or....?' and he said 'oh god, do you know, I've been thinking I should probably pick it up, but I couldn't work out why you hadn't mentioned it so I thought you'd left it there for a reason'

If we were having other troubles, I can imagine going completely out of my mind with irritance at him not picking up the fleece.

Honestly, having read the OW part, I would start serving him plates of the rotting leftovers that he asked you to save.

i have mixed feelings about the term "nag" or other similar words. if you ask someone nicely to do something completely within reason and they basically don't until you ask them 50 times over and over until you finally lose your cool and shout at them to just fucking do it, are you truly a nag? why should the "nag" accept picking up all the slack on tasks that affect the family as a whole just because the other person can't be arsed and knows eventually you'll do it to prevent any negative effect on the family?

i used to accept being called a nag/bitchy/fussy etc until i realized that a lot of the things i was asking for were totally normal and reasonable, and actually that most other husbands did them automatically without even being asked, or if they were asked did them right away.

Motherbear - i totally empathize with you, vent away. sometimes i think if they just acknowledged how much more work they make for you when they screw it up or don't do stuff and make it up in other ways, we wouldn't mind so much picking up the slack.

Acrossthepond - won't throw the tubs away, these are the nice lock and lock plastic ones that are expensive, i would otherwise. i don't mind that he's forgotten to eat it, i mind that he's forgotten to eat it AND left it to rot in the fridge AND won't clear it up, or if he clears it up it'll only because i've told him to. Why should i have to tell him to? and why should you have to tell him to throw it out if he's forgotten to eat it? it's just an example of his general mindset towards these kinds of tasks.

For those who haven't seen it, this is the mental load comic:
english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

And for those who remember the incompetent husbands threads, the ongoing example there was the dirty glass on top of the dishwasher rather than in the dishwasher.

Re OW - just want to make it clear i'm biding my time on that. I didn't have MN to lean on when I found out, i didn't feel able to tell a lot of people IRL (also got some horrible advice), so i made some choices that in hindsight were poor and put me in a poor position (anyone considering becoming an expat trailing spouse should look into all the ramifications of their immigration status and family law in the place they are moving to). i am chugging along - either i will gain equal immigration footing here or i will leave the country with DS. until i get to that day, i'm in a limbo that i will not risk.

otherwise, like many others on here, i wanted to give him a chance to see if we could reconcile and give him all the opportunity in the world to show he could change. Unfortunately as time has gone on, it's clear he hasn't, even when he's supposed to be making the utmost effort.

GinGeum - i think you've proved my point with your story too. It is funny, BUT why did YOU have to be the one to mention it? If your DP thought about it each time he stepped over it, why didn't he say something first instead of waiting for you? Especially as he was the one who put it there in the first place.

OP, the point I was making was that these little niggles become more and more irritating when you're angry/upset/hurt/whatever at the other person to begin with. The fleece thing was a non-event really, but it could have been the cause of huge irritation if I was already pissed off at him for other things.

I don't disagree with the mental load thing, but I also don't have a problem with taking on the mental load. We made a decision (back when I used to work) about how we wanted the house to run. I just prefer to organise things myself, so we decided I would give up work and the house would be my 'job'. I appreciate our scenario doesn't work for everybody, and I appreciate our scenario is chosen, not just lumbered on me.

I understand. But my point is that in a basically good marriage, it would have been a relatively minor irritation instead of another brick in the wall. DH complains I don't empty the bin as often as I should, I let it get 'too full' for his taste. But it's a minor irritation for him, just as some of the things he does are minor irritations for me. We try to 'not do those things' but we often just forget. But we forgive each other because we love each other, because we know it's not done out of a feeling of not caring or 'it's not my job' or even actually wanting to piss the other off.

But in an unhappy marriage, all the minor things become major because they're indicative of an 'I don't give a shit about your feelings' mindset rather than just a 'brain fart', iyswim. It's pretty obvious that your marriage is shit and you're very unhappy and I'm sorry. Everyone deserves to be happy.

You mentioned you're in the US. So am I. Counseling is readily available here. I don't know why you're staying in such an unhappy marriage, but maybe counseling can help you figure that out and/or give you the tools to live with him and still be happy. I'd also advise a visit to a lawyer if you haven't done already. Maybe there is a way out for you.

I see now expat

Sounds like something my DH would do. It's like something doesn't quite compute.

Across has put it better than I did.

"You sound like a nag, lighten up"

And you sound like an insensitive prick who can't read a full thread. Grow up.

GinGeum and AcrossthePond55 - yes i take your points about these being generally minor things. it's when they continually occur across all spectrums of your life for years. Even without OW, i think we eventually would have needed counselling to sort it out. It becomes a pattern that once it's gone on long enough, feels like it's deliberate ("strategic incompetence"), and not just brain farts.

In the example of the fleece - other than the mental load of having to bring it up, i assume DP picked it up. Did he then throw it in the laundry for you to take care of - while you've agreed to take on the house and mental load, is it fair for him to make extra work for you?
In the example of the bins - does it make extra work for your DP if you overfill the bin in his opinion? i.e. if all the rubbish fell out all over the place when he tries to empty it, then i think he has a point and i would hope i would make an effort not to overfill the bin.

When asked (sincerely) what I do around the house that creates extra work for him, the only thing he has ever been able to say is that sometimes i leave drawers open 1/4". he equates that to dripping piss all over the bathroom floor, or leaving dirty dishes all over the house, or dumping dirty laundry on the floor next to the basket instead of in, and on and on.

Also i think the problem is exacerbated when you're told you're just nagging/i don't see what the problem is, it's not that big a deal/if you were a loving wife, you would let these things go. Surely if the other person also cared, they would make a visible effort not to do these things that cause stress and yes, extra work, for their other half?

AcrossthePond55 - have been to counselling for a long time. has made barely a dent - counsellor tells him the same thing every week and nothing changes. i am mainly here because i made the mistake of thinking he could change, and now i am stuck in a redneck mysogynistic place where i have to be careful about leaving. i've spoken to lawyers in 3 countries and basically i'm stuck unless i want to risk losing custody of DS.

petalhead no, the fridge issue isn't a 'biggie', but like I said, it's the last straw. When someone is in the OPs situation it only takes the 'D'H to breathe loudly for you to want to strangle them.

haha Missb00 he breathes loudly too... and we are way past last straw on camel's back. think this camel's humps have been completely flattened. just trying to keep head up and not get completely crushed before i'm out.

Missboo, no I was saying these things ARE important, that I don't agree that it's petty or "no biggie".

I've heard how difficult it is when you're living in a foreign country and you want out of a marriage when children are involved. I know there are categories within in our immigration system for people in abusive marriages to allow them to leave a marriage, get a work visa, and stay here. That may not be what you want, but it that something that might be worth investigating? Here's a link to one of them:

www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/victims-human-trafficking-other-crimes/victims-criminal-activity-u-nonimmigrant-status/victims-criminal-activity-u-nonimmigrant-status#U%20Nonimmigrant%20Eligibility

Please note that domestic violence is considered a crime under this program and that emotional abuse is considered abuse in the US. Talk to an immigration lawyer.

Do you mean you've had couple's counseling? IMO that's pretty useless in your situation as it's apparent that he doesn't think he need to or care to change. I was thinking more about 'strengthening' and 'strategy' counseling for you. More of 'OK, here I am in this shitty situation. He's a wanker who does XXX and YYY and ZZZ. He's not going to change. Give me tools to deal with it'. Counseling to help you 'detach' and cope with him 'as he is' because he's not going to change. Right now you're beating your head against a stone wall and all that will do is give you a headache. Maybe coping strategies will help you to 'co-exist' in the same household with him until the time comes that you can do something more.

But yes re the breathing. It reminds me of a Jacky Fleming cartoon which I now can't find but there's a woman sitting in bed looking pissed off while the man is asleep. Woman says: I hate the way he eats. I hate the way he breathes. I hate the way he SLEEPS LYING DOWN! :o

OP, if he's got as far as going on holiday with an OW, does he even want the marriage to continue? Could you agree to end the relationship but stay there until you can sort everything out?

I can totally understand why you'd want to come on here to vent - you 're having to play the long game here, but I would imagine it gets hard to contain the sheer frustration.