to think colleague was being U?

[yaela123]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone else has already posted about this :)

A colleague who is on maternity leave (let's call her Ann) brought in her (gorgeous) 4 week old daughter today, as is fairly normal for our workplace (I took in my DD at 2.5 weeks, and my twins at 5 weeks).

Obviously there was lots of cooing, passing her around, cake and tea etc and it was very nice, except for one colleague (let's call her Beth) who made a point of being in a huff the entire time.

Beth is having fertility issues and is soon to have a second round of IVF. She has also had 2 miscarriages. Some of us - including me and Ann - know this but not everyone. I really feel for her and understand it's really tough, especially after having a miscarriage myself.

So after about half an hour another colleague (Shall we say Carol?) asked her why she was in such a bad mood and Beth started on a massive rant about how cruel and unfair it was of Ann to bring her DD in and show her off when she knew about the fertility problems, etc etc. She was shouting right in Ann's face and everything! Ann was in tears and we were almost too stunned to talk.

Eventually Cath took Beth outside and calmed her down, whilst we comforted Ann, who left after half an hour.

Whilst I understand that Beth must be having a really stressful time atm, I think her outburst was VU. Ann has absolutely nothing to feel guilty about and this may have a bad effect on her, especially as it's her first.

So who do you think is BU? And how should I approach Beth tomorrow?

I was going to type a response but Abra pretty much summarised my thoughts on the matter:

*"I have have read of some truly hurtful behaviour reported by people on MN and attributed to the perpetrator's infertility.

It's not get-out card for being horrible. Some people manage to be kind and pleasant while suffering terrrible things. I know of people with terminal cancer who can show sympathy for those suffering with flu. I know of people who have lost a child who can show concern for their friend's child of a similar age, who would have been in the same class, and has a non-life-threatening illness.

It's called grace."*

I feel for Beth, I really do. However, her behaviour was terrible and unjustified. She should and could have walked away.

Infertility is incredibly painful but it's not a get out of jail free card for dreadful behaviour.

I don't disagree with this, but equally why should having a baby be a get out of jail free card for insensitive behaviour? And it is insensitive if she knows a colleague is having issues with infertility.

If Ann's colleagues are also her friends then she can meet them outside work to show off her baby; if they're not then why does she need to take her baby into the workplace?

...now Ann will be sitting at home feeling terrible and wondering what she has done to deserve all that flack.

I doubt it. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation, I think it would have been pretty clear exactly what it was that Beth was upset about.

BTW It is very normal in all the places I have worked to bring baby in!

Anyone who plans "to bring baby in" (as opposed to "the baby" or "my baby") is VVVU imo.

you say it's a simple pleasure, but who for? In my experience it's a pleasure only for the baby's mother who gets to show the baby off and talk about herself/the baby to a captive audience. For most of colleagues it's boring and/or awkward and/or a distraction.

Can't speak for anyone else but I like it :)

Another colleague is 7 months pregnant (2017 seems to be the year!) so when the time comes, if the situation is still the same, I might gently suggest meeting in a local cafe, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it as anything could have happened by then.

Grandesespoir

BTW It is very normal in all the places I have worked to bring baby in!

Anyone who plans "to bring baby in" (as opposed to "the baby" or "my baby") is VVVU imo. 

Wow was it really necessary to pick apart my entire post and jump on me for omitting a "the" or " my"

Awaiting a further slating for the bold fail in my previous post....

Don't worry about it Andie! I've seen posters making fun of people referring to babies as "baby" instead of "the / my baby" on MN a few times before. I wouldn't take it personally! There's nothing wrong with the way you phrased it. People irl say that all the time and nobody cares .

I would say though, that, just because it's normal doesn't mean it should be or that it's mandatory. It was the norm in my old work, but I declined to do it. So, Ann could easily have arranged to meet up outside work, with people who were genuinely interested in her and her baby, instead, if she'd thought about it a bit beforehand. Again, not excusing Beth's behaviour though.

Well done for sorting it.

Beth was. I have plenty of difficulties in my own life. If the conversation is making me upset I make an excuse and leave the room. Having a tantrum at work is unacceptable and cant be excused by hormones. I could understand her being tearful or quiet but not shouting at Ann. Also it is pretty standard to bring baby in to work uf you are a teacher. It would have been v easy for Beth to leave staffroom.

Honestly, I'm really sick of hearing about how the world needs to stop turning for people who can't have children, or people using it to excuse awful behaviour (ditto "pregnancy hormones", actually, but that's another discussion). So what? You can't always have what you want, that's life. There are lots of things I can't do, but I don't expect other people not to do or talk about them in my presence, or hold them hostage with the threat of tears, tantrums and appalling behaviour if they do. Do I expect people to not talk about their holidays because I can't afford one, or not to talk about physical activities because I'm disabled? Good god no. If you're consumed by such a "longing" to the degree that you can't function at work, for goodness sake, then you probably need to find something else to do in your life. It's ridiculous.

These people need to get a grip and stop expecting everyone else in the world to cater to their self-indulgent moping. Beth's behaviour was absolutely disgraceful and she should be fired. Furthermore if she can't keep her emotions out of the workplace, she shouldn't be there in the first place. Ridiculous woman.

Couldn't people, (who enjoy adopting this^^ sort of tone that is), just as easily say this?

"Honestly, I'm sick of hearing how the world should stop turning because someone has had a baby. So what? You've had a baby and you want to show it off. There are lots of things I've done which I'm pleased about and proud of, but I don't parade them round the office while people are trying to work and expect everyone to stop what they're doing and crowd round me for well over half an hour.

These people who have had babies need to get a grip and stop expecting people to cater to their self indulgent need to show off about something totally unrelated to work, to people they probably aren't particularly good friends with, (or surely they'd meet outside work). Ridiculous people."

I wouldn't say this^^ myself as I think the tone is unnecessarily aggressive tbh but hopefully you see what I mean.

I think Beth's behaviour was totally inappropriate, (and so does Beth apparently - the op updated a couple of days ago I think), but the situation could so easily have been avoided.

I agree with that too, Decaff; it's the same thing but from a different angle.

But all this having to tiptoe around infertile people is ludicrous. Life carries on. And honestly, why are they disclosing their personal business like this in the workplace anyway? It's very unprofessional. Why do people in Beth's workplace even know that she's having IVF? Keep it out of work, for goodness sake.

I tend to agree rachel, but then some people are more open about these things than I would be.

It does all sound quite unprofessional; Ann hanging around with her baby for a prolonged period of time, Cath / Carol approaching Beth when she was huffing, Beth blowing up and getting very emotional at work. I think maybe lines have become blurred between work and personal life.

I work for a large company, and have a team of 60-70 and we have male and female parents alike bringing in new babies. People know I have fertility problems & before anyone arranges to bring a baby round they always give me a quick ring about it to warn me in advance. A couple of times I've arranged to have my lunch around the visit.

I think Ann turning up without warning with the baby at closing time while you were all with your students (and presumbly working) and then staying ages was the problem. These types of visits should be short and over lunch, so people can escape if they need to.

No, not everyone wants to coo over a baby but it is ridiculous to suggest people on Mat leave shouldn't bring their babies in to for colleagues who wish to see the baby. If you don't want to coo over a baby don't, carry on with your work to say it's insensitive is ridiculous.

Yes it's hart breaking that Beth is having fertility issues but that doesn't mean that other people can't be happy for Ann and want to see the baby in case it upsets her.

I think you're very lucky in that case, Groupie. The point is that people shouldn't have to tiptoe around people in order to do something normal. Why do you expect this from your colleagues? It's wrong.

I'm glad that things are settled, OP, and that Beth feels better.

I still think Carol/Cath needs to wind her neck in.

I wonder if cath/carol has form for baiting people for a response?

Furthermore if she can't keep her emotions out of the workplace, she shouldn't be there in the first place.

She was until she was approached by cath/carol

Ridiculous woman.

Some empathy needed here

Maybe Cath/Carol is sick of Beth not being able to control her emotions about babies. I know I would be. I find it utterly ridiculous.

racheltable

Maybe Cath/Carol is sick of Beth not being able to control her emotions about babies.

You mean like those who control their emotions by cooing over babies that have been brought in to the office?

And honestly, why are they disclosing their personal business like this in the workplace anyway?

Like bringing babies in to the office?

Why do people in Beth's workplace even know that she's having IVF? Keep it out of work, for goodness sake.

In the monitoring phase of IVF, individuals can often need appointments every other day for blood tests and scans, consequently work life is impacted.

It's easier to be open and honest with colleagues, rather than face numerous rumours.

Also, being open and honest means colleagues should hopefully show some sensitivity, instead of asking questions such as; 'When are you having kids?', 'Are you trying?' etc.

I feel for Beth. I know how hard infertility is. I haven't exploded, but then I did have more sensitive colleagues who gave me a heads up when a baby was being brought into work.

The prevalence of mental health issues amongst people suffering from infertility is huge. A recent survey, over 1000 respondents, conducted by Fertility Network UK with Middlesex University London showed that a whopping 90 per cent of respondents reported feeling depressed; 42% suicidal). No excuse for inappropriate behaviour, but if Beth is at a vulnerable point, it's easy to see how some insensitivity could throw her over the edge.

Whilst Beth's behaviour isn't appropriate, my questions would be:

• Is this normal behaviour for Beth or is she showing significant signs of distress?
• Is Beth getting enough support?
• What can be done to prevent this from happening in the future?
• What can be done now to move forward for Ann, Beth and Carol?

Whilst Beth's behaviour isn't appropriate, my questions would be:
- Is this normal behaviour for Beth or is she showing significant signs of distress?
- Is Beth getting enough support?
- What can be done to prevent this from happening in the future?
- What can be done now to move forward for Ann, Beth and Carol?

None of which is the concern of Beth's colleagues. Beth's infertility is not a workplace issue, and should be kept out of the workplace.

As to what can be done to prevent it happening in the future: Beth needs to learn how to deal with the fact that babies exist, and she also needs to learn how to keep her emotions out of the workplace.

Beth needs to learn how to deal with the fact that babies exist,

That is a really flippant comment

and she also needs to learn how to keep her emotions out of the workplace

That is the thing, she was keeping it to herself, she was out of the way, not forcing her opinions or problems on anyone (I suspect that her "making a point about being in a huff" was sitting at her desk not cooing over the baby) until the issue was forced.

As for keeping emotions out of the workplace, that has to go for everyone including those that bring babies in or coo over them.

That is the thing, she was keeping it to herself, she was out of the way, not forcing her opinions or problems on anyone (I suspect that her "making a point about being in a huff" was sitting at her desk not cooing over the baby) until the issue was forced.

Well clearly she wasn't, since someone had cause to ask why she was in such a bad mood. Had she been dealing with it in an acceptable manner, Cath/Carol wouldn't have had to ask her that in the first place.

Having a strop at work because you can't control your emotions is unacceptable, full stop. And she does need to deal with the fact that babies exist. Infertile people do not get carte blanche to expect the rest of the world to behave in a certain way all the time so as not to upset them. People should not have to tiptoe around them all the time when going about their normal business; they need to learn to deal with this in a socially acceptable way, I'm afraid.