To think that young people came out in record numbers for one simple reason that most people are missing?

[PumpkinPiloter]

I believe that young people came out in record numbers because they wanted to vote for someone they could trust.

TM like many politicians before her see no problem in going back on her word. She is not alone in this and politicians have been guilty of this from both the right and left side of politics.

Despite your reservations or views on JC it is clear he has not gone back on his word since being elected as the leader of the opposition. He has stood by his word and fought a campaign based on policies he believed in and refused to use dirty smear tactics.

Perhaps people generally are sick of being lied to and electing politicians that seem to showmen/careerists first and representatives of the people second.

It's true May had nothing to do with the £350 million NHS claim, but I don't know that she was 'campaigning' for Remain in any meaningful sense. She was a Remainer in name only. Primary goal seemed to be to try and keep out of the way.

Yeah, I'd agree with that, but she was still nominally Remain even if it was party line. But the blaming her for the NHS bus pledge/suggestion is just silly. It's not fair or accurate. I dislike the woman and I think she's reaping her harvest, but lying doesn't do anything for a healthy democracy.

NoLottery I don't have an entrenched position on the best way forward economically because I know enough to know how very much I don't know, if that makes sense. My view is that the way so many people know even less, yet hold vehement positions, is a real problem for democracy. I recognise that (as you note) Brown saved the economy. A lot of people seem not to grasp that his spending saved the banking system and put a floor under house prices so a drop didn't turn into a homelessness and asset crisis. We were bloody lucky he was in situ at the time.

In terms of current government priorities, I just don't see that eg propping up housebuilders with taxpayer cash to further inflate a housing bubble, which forces so many priced-out families into eyewatering rentals or (if they can buy at all) overpriced rabbit hutches is a sensible use of tax money. Nor is the bottomless hole of universal credit system creation costs (according to the Institute of Fiscal Studies,the cost is now calculated at £16 billion; fully 1% of GDP), or the batshit that is free schools, or the endless employing of private companies in areas that did not previously exist and that do no observable good for the taxpayer or the client base.. the list goes on. Austerity is a bit of a misnomer when you look at the things that they have found money for, versus things they haven't. It's not as though they haven't been spending - it's just that their priorities haven't achieved much of worth, that I can discern.

One thing I do have to applaud this government and the last for, though, is the 0.7% commitment to foreign aid. Cameron said he wouldn't have our future built on the backs of the world's poorest, and I admire that. It's just a shame that compassion didn't extend to the most vulnerable here, too. Though the Oxford Council letter did make me wonder if he really understood the reality of his own policies. Perhaps he really did think there were armies of needless administrators whose loss wouldn't cause any service delivery issues? Who knows.

Yes, I don't disagree with any of that sleep, or that corporation tax should eventually rise ever, or even that there are some degrees we should consider subsidising but there is a middle way that does a better job of protecting jobs, unsustainable borrowing and private sector growth.

I can agree these are very complicated question - why is Corbyn so certain that a massive state expansion is a good answer?

Can you defend specifically his minimum wage hike, raising corporation tax as brexit hits?

We need to look in detail at why Britain has been relatively good at creating jobs compared to the eurozone. I'll look into the reasons for this. As I said, we need to tread carefully because whilst zero hours contracts are crap, 25% youth unemployment is a disaster - if corbnomics can happen here, so can high unemployment.

How can people claim to trust a politician who's never been put to the test.

Corbin was just like Father Christmas during his campaign, giving everything away to everyone.

But he could do that, couldn't he. He's the Opposition, and promises are easily made.

Errmm Germany doesn't have 25% unemployment does it. Let's compare against other G8 countries until Brexit pushes us out of that

Daisy May has been tested and found wanting. Now austerity is over. But she lies so who knows what that means

How can people claim to trust a politician who's never been put to the test.

Well, by that logic we should have stuck with Henry VIII. Or something. Because hey, the guy that came after him had never been put to the test...

Had may been put to the test before she became pm?

What definition of 'put to the test' are we using?

As one of the "youth" who voted, I voted Labour because I believe that even the poor, disabled, young and unhealthy have a right to a dignified life. University fees had nothing to do with it.

Corbin was just like Father Christmas during his campaign, giving everything away to everyone.

That sounds like BoJo to me.

Don't think Cameron had much experience and if the Tories had used FPTP for their leader perhaps Davis would still be Prime Minister. Wonder why they want to keep to that system for the rest of us.

What makes you think our economy is closely matched to Germany though? you can't cherry pick and say we'all have those policies and be Germany and not Spain or Italy. Hopefully the IFS will do more analysis around youth unemployment because it's certainly a considerable worry.

If the EU as a whole WITH the single market has 25% youth unemployment, suggestive of a significant EU wide problem.

So here we have state investment that didn't result in jobs in Italy, vs Germany where companies got more involved with apprenticeship schemes.

If we're cherry picking from here, Corbyn should've spent more time and money overhauling apprenticeships with private companies and not making university free for all.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/10/calabria-bavaria-eurozone-youth-unemployment-job-opportunities

I have two questions.

Is there really a direct correlation between growing the economy and increasing revenue and therefore improving public services? I ask this because my suspicion is that the type of economy we have is more important than just its size. Presumably an economy can look like it's booming when a few massive players are doing well, as the very largest corporations will skew the absolute figures. It seems to me that where an economy is created in this uneven way, the benefit to most of the population will be much much less than an economy in which more people have more disposable income.

If I understand correctly, levels of personal debt have never? been higher. Therefore the growth of the economy can not be said to be benefiting most people. Personal debt is rarely mentioned. Isn't it a threat to the economy in the future?

Second question is to smaller employers who say they can't afford to pay more than the current minimum wage. I really admire self-employed people who work incredibly hard to support themselves and further their businesses, but how do employers justify asking people to work for their benefit for a wage that barely allows them to live?

interesting questions rogue. The other side of it though: would the people getting less than minimum wage rather have no job if those firms for whom this is marginal go out of business?

It's possible that we do need structural changes, but these can't happen overnight, it has to be done with careful incentives to create more good jobs, not by pushing marginal firms out of business necessarily.

I'm sure a lot of people are like me in that they agree with quite a few of the criticisms made by Corbyn about the losers of economic liberalism, but think the solutions need to be carefully evaluated before we plump wholesale for a slew of state investment, and adding higher costs onto firms in light of Brexit.

One thing I did note: Germany has been able to maintain a shortage of skilled young people and that's one of the reasons they have low youth unemployment and good training schemes.

in light of Brexit.

Davis still seems hell bent to take us off the cliff.

as a remainer, both parties are taking us out the single market, due to free movement restrictions - there doesn't seem a good, disruption free brexit option here.

With respect dont swear at me! I know what i know because i personally know people who are on longterm disability due to a bad back oh and a bad wrist , and eczema and any number of other things that mean that actually they are capable of working! They also get help with cars. You only have to walk around my home town to see the huge amount of cars with disabled stickers, znd many of these are prestige cars! I appreciate that this may not be the same everywhere, but ilive where i live and you live where you live. Disability fraud is actually huge here.whilst i do not mean to offend genuinely disabled people at the same time get off your high horse! If you are disabled you are entitled to what you are entitled to and if you are not you are taking it away from those who are. Plus ,hats off to those disabled who work when they are able to.oh, and what the heck has my preferred reading material got to do with anything? And if anyones interested i live on minimum wage, not as i suspect you think , well off!

You don't get anything for eczema. The fact that you mention eczema makes you - shall we say less than credible?

Oh dear, Mummy

1. We're allowed to swear on this site.
2. You get nothing for excema.
3. You get nothing for a bad back.
4. You get nothing for a bad wrist.
5. 50,000 people have lost their mobility cars WHICH THEY PAID FOR
6. Motability cars aren't free
7. Stop using the phrase genuine disabled people.
8. hats off to disabled people who work when they're able to how patronising!
9. Kindly do some research before posting.
10. Not surprised you live on minimum wage at all, you're the government's target audience for this sort of tripe, which you have swallowed; hook, line and sinker.

oh, and whilst we're at it, Mummy
DLA and PiP are NOT OUT OF WORK BENEFITS

Just adding this

www.theguardian.com/uk

Forget that cos wrong thread.

Oops sorry

Disabled bashing....how shocking. How about you bash your puppet masters rather than the needy

Shame on you

1. i know someone on longterm disability for eczema.
   2)ditto bad back 3)ditto bad wrist Why do you think i posted this?you seem to think im lying for the fun of it? Sorry ,ive better things to do.im sorry if you think imbeing patronising towards people who cant work due to illness,that wasnt my intent. I have an aunty with no legs and a brother with severe epilepsy these are the people i mean when i refer to genuine disability not the above! Im sorry if you feel lnsulted by this as they too have had their benefits cut. My brother cannot drive for obvious reasons but he takes the money rather than the car so im aware that you only get a certain amount towards transport . Regardless, a large percentage of the cars in my town with disabled stickers are very expensive prestige cars ,so they are obviously getting their money from somewhere do you not think? Oh ,and where i was brought up the F word was classed as swearing!