To think that young people came out in record numbers for one simple reason that most people are missing?

[PumpkinPiloter]

I believe that young people came out in record numbers because they wanted to vote for someone they could trust.

TM like many politicians before her see no problem in going back on her word. She is not alone in this and politicians have been guilty of this from both the right and left side of politics.

Despite your reservations or views on JC it is clear he has not gone back on his word since being elected as the leader of the opposition. He has stood by his word and fought a campaign based on policies he believed in and refused to use dirty smear tactics.

Perhaps people generally are sick of being lied to and electing politicians that seem to showmen/careerists first and representatives of the people second.

It's a myth that EU migrants can show up and get handed heaven on a plate. The BBC sets out the legal position here. They have to live here long enough to be deemed habitually resident, and you're only allowed to do that for longer than 3 months if you have a job, or a legit prospect of one.

Incidentally, Slovak women have on average fewer children than British ones do. They're 1.4 per woman, while we're almost 1.9.

I think a bigger problem than EU "benefit migrants" is the fact that last July, 1300 EU citizen nurses were applying to work in the UK - as opposed to just 46, this April. So that's going to work fantastically for the NHS. Yay, Brexit.

Corbyn made lala-land promises he could never have kept, as they would cost too much money and the economy could never afford them, so you can not assume he is honest and trustworthy - we have no evidence of that either way . Notice how labour botched their numbers each time they were asked how they would be able to afford them! I think the younger generation voted labour because they were unhappy with Brexit, pure and simple.

I think it is great that young people came out to vote. I honestly believe it is because they have someone to believe in. Although Labour didn't win it was a positive step and I am sure next time JC will do it.
As for the comment about aspirations I find that offensive! My husband and I both work full time always have, we are both successful in our field and would have been effected financially by the higher tax over 80k that JC would have implemented. However, we both voted labour as we believe the policies were best for society as a whole!
In fact the majority of my highly educated, successful friends voted labour. The way it fell was that those with less aspirations and perhaps who do need to rely on certain benefits voted conservative! No logic to it but in my social circle which is very diverse and we all have different backgrounds aspirations that is how the vote fell! Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to presume a whole group have no aspirations is ridiculous!

sleeponeday, I think those who voted Leave would be jolly pleased to read the statistics you've just quote on nursing job applicants. That was the whole point of their voting to Leave, I thought - to cut down on the number of EU citizens coming here and 'taking our jobs'?

Summer (and a few others) 129 economists backed the Labour manifesto, so I wonder whether your 'lalaland' and unaffordable jibes are just what the right wing media have told you? Here's the evidence if you have missed it. It's from a left wing site, but it reprints a letter written to the Guardian by economists.
Have you forgotten, also, how the actual chancellor messed up his numbers? An article to remind you

I think Labour got the youth vote for several reasons. 1.They are pissed off about Brexit. 2. They want free tuition fees. 3.They believe in public services. 4. They can't remember how bad Labour were with economy and don't realise borrowing £125 billion will all have to be repaid with interest. 5.They can't see how they will ever afford a house. 6.Just wanted a change.

sleeponeday, I think those who voted Leave would be jolly pleased to read the statistics you've just quote on nursing job applicants. That was the whole point of their voting to Leave, I thought - to cut down on the number of EU citizens coming here and 'taking our jobs'?

Oops, silly me. What's a medical degree compared to a few rousing choruses of Rule Britannia, right?

I do find it weird that people still bang on about how we need to decide between Hard and Soft Brexit - like we're shopping for a mattress. It really isn't going to be up to us.

"The UK cannot participate in discussions of the European Council regarding its withdrawal. The power balance during this period is deliberately weighted towards the remaining 27 EU countries. Andrew Duff, a former Liberal Democrat MEP, who helped draw up Article 50 notes: 'The EU could not allow a seceding state to spin things out for too long. The clause puts most of the cards in the hands of those that stay in.'"

Rufus '...literally getting away with murder' aka people plotting to kill British people - e.g. the girl that got stabbed in the throat by a terrorist that walked into a cafe in London (been on the news tonight). Known to police but this country is too scared/held back by human rights to do anything about him!!!!

They can't remember how bad Labour were with economy and don't realise borrowing £125 billion will all have to be repaid with interest.

People keep saying this as if it's a proven fact.

The stats I've seen show clearly that the Labour administration had a lower deficit before the global economic crisis than the Tories have managed since the country came out of recession, despite Labour's heavy investment in the country, and the Conservative cuts. In fact for several years, Labour were running a surplus, and they were breaking even in 2007. Labour got us into hock with PFI (John Major's brainchild, but they were the ones who went wild with it) so their fiscal management can definitely be side-eyed on that score. But the wails over the deficit (and debt - obviously not the same thing) are just... wrong.

I appreciate what you are saying lola but i am still struggling to see how that vile little scumbag got away with it

But I understand your point about the police being 'powerless' to stop them

Whereto1967 I voted Brexit because I think it is unfair we are forced to take so many EU migrants we can't then take so many from rest of world. I would prefer a more even balance. I also think EU officials are very patronising.

Brexit was a big wake up call for young people.

JC spoke to ordinary people about the things that matter to them - education, NHS, minimum wage for example. He talked about a fairer society, about higher taxation for corporations and high earners. He talked about the disaster that is our rail service. These are the things that matter to people in their everyday lives.

Sleeponeday money that is borrowed does have to be repaid with interest that is a fact. Labour put in their manifesto they would borrow a further £125 billion that is a fact and in addition to raising corporation tax.

I think most people who voted labour wanted to stick a great big middle finger up to the Conservative party, not that they suddenly thought labour were great.

I also think most people who voted for Brexit did so because they felt threaten by EU migrants.

I would trust JC with a lot of things....Brexit isn't one of them.

There's no connection between reducing EU migrants and increasing numbers from the rest of the world (and remember there are plenty of people here through EU law who aren't EEA nationals, having an EEA family member is actually one of the easier ways to come to the UK for a non-EEA national).

Note that non-EEA migration has risen since 2004. If we needed to reduce EEA numbers to allow more non-EEA, why has the opposite proved true? It's a fallacious argument.

Known to police but this country is too scared/held back by human rights to do anything about him!!!!

The police actually say that they were too held back by police spending cuts to do anything about him, because they didn't have the capacity to run surveillance on all the people they thought might pose a risk. The HRA is a red herring, played because Theresa May was trying to distract from the speech in which she told a Manchester community policeman, back in 2015 (who'd warned her that the cuts would result in terrorism, and were a threat to national security) to stop fear-mongering and crying wolf.

And even if you dothink it's okay to arrest someone who hasn't broken any law, and lock them up just in case they might to at some point; even if Theresa May does repeal the Human Rights Act (which been relied upon for all sorts of very worthwhile things)- that still wouldn't mean the police could do anything because, again, they don't have the intel and manpower to garner evidence right now.

And the country are still signatories to the European Convention on Human Rights, and we have the right to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, anyway, so it would just cost us a load more money to defend a case over in Strasbourg. There's a reason the slogan for the HRA was, "bringing rights home". They were rights we already had, under the ECHR. They're rights we would still have, even without the Human Rights Act. Because that court and that Convention are nothing to do with the EU: they're Council of Europe, which nobody has mentioned leaving.

Someone probably needs to let Theresa May know that, though.

Sleeponeday money that is borrowed does have to be repaid with interest that is a fact. Labour put in their manifesto they would borrow a further £125 billion that is a fact and in addition to raising corporation tax.

I think you need to Google Keynesian economics. (Clue: Donald Trump did not in fact invent the concept of priming the pump.)

Agree with sleep

All of the United pro used made by JC e.g. housing benefit for 18-25 year olds, free tuition, minimum wage increase for all the jobs he is going to create by thumping ordinary and high tax payers as well as businesses. There is something wrong in his reasoning. Higher wages =fewer jobs, no tuition fees=less places, increase taxes=less spending by Joe public, more tax on business=reduced investment. Basic economics!

Economics isn't basic. Sadly, people think that it is. That's... a problem.

Notice how labour botched their numbers each time they were asked how they would be able to afford them! Like Phillip Hammond?
I don't remember seeing any figures in the Tory manifesto, oh yes, that's right; there weren't any.

**sleeponeday Returning from a holiday in Dubai - thought I'd lost my phone, returned to the hotel lobbie to find it still there! Hotel manager told us that no one would dare steal it as punishments are so harsh i.e. Hands/fingers chopped off. Very little crime there... the UK is soft and everyone in Europe and further afield knows that which is why immigration figures are so high!! This poor country

Today Labour announced they would support May in coming out of the single market. I wonder how many young people will be happy with that?

The mistake the Tories made, among many, was negativity.

Too much focus on work, struggle, JAMs - it worked during credit crunch and austerity/Coalition time but has had its day now.

All JC did was promise everyone the moon on a stick and the message was swallowed whole. It is like a weird cult as some PP have said, but then Labour is a little bit like a religion whose adherents believe themselves to be morally superior.

The young are, naturally, more gullible than the old and that's all it took to create the shift - a little bit of hopey/changey and an electorate with very little life experience.

If the shift ever became government with JC as PM the reality would be dire, of course. (As dire as the dreadful DUP alliance the Tories are currently exploring, in suicidal fashion).

It could be some time before any grown-ups come back into the arena.