Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that young people came out in record numbers for one simple reason that most people are missing?

397 replies

PumpkinPiloter · 11/06/2017 12:29

I believe that young people came out in record numbers because they wanted to vote for someone they could trust.

TM like many politicians before her see no problem in going back on her word. She is not alone in this and politicians have been guilty of this from both the right and left side of politics.

Despite your reservations or views on JC it is clear he has not gone back on his word since being elected as the leader of the opposition. He has stood by his word and fought a campaign based on policies he believed in and refused to use dirty smear tactics.

Perhaps people generally are sick of being lied to and electing politicians that seem to showmen/careerists first and representatives of the people second.

OP posts:
KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 13/06/2017 15:57

If more tax were going to solve the problem I'd pay it. It won't and you know our kids will be well down the list of priorities when it comes to shovelling out the barrel. Mr corbyn is far more worried about paying for kids if people wealthier than me to go to university for nowt. He's no saviour believe me.
What I have done is make a will which provides for whatever I leave when I keel over to be administered by trustees for ds benefit. Plus get him set up in sustainable mode of life well before that time. Don't quite know what that will be yet but time will show
Hard to think about this stuff

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 13/06/2017 15:59

Interesting point of view everthink. Parent has means and doesn't agree with my politics therefore her disabled child isn't worthy of compassion.
And they say the left us caring ...

Mummym2005 · 13/06/2017 16:05

All the young people i know voted labour because he promised them everything! Like every labour government that has ever come to power he didnt warn them that they , and their chhildren would be paying for it for the rest of their lives; if they intend to work for aliving that is!Tony blair nigh on bankrupted the country has everyone forgotten that! Its not about not wanting to help people,its about the fact that everyone is so used to having everything and having it now ,that they are prepared to vote for anyone who says they will give it to them.This is our kids lives we are playing with. Do we really all want them to have to work until they drop after having nothing all their lives because of crippling taxes? Get real you lot you cant have it all without the money to pay for it unless you borrow it and then of course it has to be paid back! Remember everyone on the bank crucifixion wagon? Apparently they are the root of all evil!

annielouise · 13/06/2017 16:05

Of course, StillDrivingMeBonkers, let's hope nothing happens to your kids where they might need a more robust health service or social care service than we've got. Keep your fingers crossed they go through life with no mental health problems, disability, unemployment etc. Or to their kids. It can happen to anyone.

Have to laugh at Zeffering - do you really think the teachers in private school are so different from those in state school? They may earn slightly more, who knows, but they're not wealthy. And don't think they're all Tory either. I've asked my DC this and the eldest was quite sure the ones he had at A level were mainly Labour.

Alfieisnoisy · 13/06/2017 16:28

I am fortunate ...there is a trust fund for my DS set up by his grandparents.

I don't think things would be perfect if we paid more tax but I do know that services which were key to disabled families have now gone.

Yes I agree attitudes to disabled people are disgusting and their needs are still too often bottom of the pile but they WERE better before the ideology lead austerity measures which TM is now apparently saying are at an end. But only because the country has noticed how many people are suffering and sent he a clear message.

Mummy, I can only speak for the young people I know who voted Labour. They did so because they see the clear inequalities which exist in society. None of them voted based upon promises of 'everything" but rather because Labour were suggesting real change to the current status quo. They are all educated and employed so hardly the unaspiring people a previous poster thought young people were.

Mummym2005 · 13/06/2017 17:02

I also agree that attitudes toward the cisabled often stink. I truly feel for the genuinely disabled as they very often seem to get a raw deal. I think what puts people off when more taxes are cited as the answer to to helping these people is the percentage of claimants for these benefits that arent genuinely disabled. Before anyone shoots me down for this ,please let me say that i live in what is classed as avery economically deprived area where a huge percentage of the population are on disability benefits . You only have to walk around our town to see that they really are able to work . It makes me very angry that someone who says they are crippled with pain from a bad back (who then makes money by cutting lawns and gardening)is placed in the same class as someone in a wheelchair due to ms or a badly disabled child.Ithink higher taxes are all very well, and have their place but we need to ensure that what money we do have is spent wisely and not just donated to fraudsters! The nhs is awash with waste. I remember being shocked when my dad (who worked in the nhs,in fact alot of my family still do) told me how at the end of each tax year each ward would just order loads of new tvs or somesuch if they had any money left ,to ensure that they got a rise the next year as they had spent all their budget!so you see its always gone on ,we just need to have a tighter more sensible hold on the purse strings!

StormTreader · 13/06/2017 17:14

" Like every labour government that has ever come to power he didnt warn them that they , and their chhildren would be paying for it for the rest of their lives"

Vast swathes of people, mostly the under 40s, are already living basically hand-to-mouth with no hope things will get better.

Alfieisnoisy · 13/06/2017 17:20

With respect Mummy you can claim PIP which is a disability benefit AND work. I have a friend who does. She has an illness which makes travel very hard and it funds the additional costs of owning the car which gets her to work.

I have another friend who does not work. You might see her out and about on good days but they are few and far between. The likelihood is that she will never be able to work again Sad but she HAS worked in the past as a Carer for elderly people. Seeing her out and about doesn't mean that she could work sadly.
I tend to remember that there are invisible disabilities we might not be aware of.

Also it is very very hard now just to claim a disability benefit. So many are rejected.. ..eveb if that person has a clear disability. More goes unclaimed than gets claimed.

Meanwhile Amazon etc swan off paying the least amount of tax they can get away with this side of the law. Personally I dislike all fraudsters...including the likes of Amazon and Starbucks.

Dawndonnaagain · 13/06/2017 17:54

You know what, without respect Mummy, you haven't a fucking clue what you're on about. Disability benefit fraud is extremely low. You don't get disability benefit for a fucking bad back. You need consultants letters and to have been seen by a an assessor who will lie like fuck to ensure you don't get anything.
As for Labour ruining the economy, go and do some damned research before coming onto a site where most know what they're actually talking about and spouting your nonsense.
No respect when you talk about the 'genuine' disabled, because we 'genuinely' disabled people are being made to pay, are being made more ill, more disabled, more suicidal because of the nonsense you Daily Mail readers believe.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 13/06/2017 17:59

Karlos....you are right I don't care about your flounce as you may have to pay a few quid more to help society in general. I could tell you how much we pay for therapy for our DC but I can't be arsed. Shut the door on your way out

PS You might want to look up your earlier insults to other posters

sleeponeday · 13/06/2017 18:09

Tony blair nigh on bankrupted the country has everyone forgotten that!

Sigh.

THAT IS NOT TRUE. It is factually inaccurate. It is contradicted by the evidence. It is a dead parrot.

It's so frustrating, how often people keep repeating soundbites that have no basis in fact. That's not the only one, either.

*Theresa May did not promise anyone £350 mill for the economy if we left the EU - she was campaigning for Remain! It had fuck all to do with her. People need to stop landing her with that one.

*The Bank of England didn't print money because that isn't what quantitative easing is, not even close... and nor did they hand billions of electronic money over to major corporations instead of nurses because they are evil moustachio-twirling capitalists, but because doing so was the only way to make quantitative easing economically safe.

*Labour did not spend this country into disaster by pouring money into our services at an unaffordable rate when the economy was thriving, instead of ensuring we broke even or better.

When Blair handed over to Brown, the national debt was lower than it had been in decades, and we had no deficit (deficit is different to debt - debt is total sum owed by gov.t to private entities, while deficit/surplus is the gap between money in and money out in a given year) to speak of. We were breaking even, and had actually run a surplus for 4 of the previous 8 years. Spending was eminently affordable, even with the heavy investment in the services. Brown was hit within a year by the global economic crisis - the clue there is in the word GLOBAL. This is a fabulous country, but it isn't capable of crashing every major world economy, no matter how much you disliked the PM at the time. At that point, spending was how we avoided the economy falling off a cliff. You don't run an economy as you do a household budget. The two are simply not comparable.

This is a nice helpful series of graphs, published by Full Fact - the independent fact checking organisation - which establishes that Labour in fact REDUCED the national debt in the years before the global economic crisis. And since then, Labour increased debt... but the Coalition and Tory administrations have been doing exactly the same thing, on the same trajectory, ever since. And they have not been dealing with a nation in recession, and nor have they been spending at adequate levels on our national services, either. In fact it looks rather as though austerity has been bad for the economy, on the actual cold hard economic facts.

Keynesian pump priming is spending your way out of a recession - we've already done that, and have the borrowing to show for it. Sure we can spend a bit more on public services, borrow a bit more, tax a bit more but ultimately it has to be long term affordable - pump-priming is not supposed to be a day in, day out way to afford your services - it's not sustainable.

Absolutely, which is why Labour only increased the national debt at a time when it was universally agreed that such spending was essential to avoid the global economic crisis becoming a disaster. But austerity absolutely does not work, if measured by national debt - it's been increasing at a scary rate under the Conservatives and we're not in recession any more. How is that evidence of prudent fiscal management?

More simply: in the good times, Labour reduced the national debt, while still spending on the public services. The Conservatives have cut public services and still increased the debt, and done so at a time when we aren't in recession. How is that evidence of fiscal competence? It just isn't.

It doesn't matter how you want to vote - there are valid reasons on all sides other than BNP maniac types. But people need to vote on the actual facts. And to do that, they need to actually research them.

TheDogAteMyGoatskinVellum · 13/06/2017 18:47

It's true May had nothing to do with the £350 million NHS claim, but I don't know that she was 'campaigning' for Remain in any meaningful sense. She was a Remainer in name only. Primary goal seemed to be to try and keep out of the way.

NoLotteryWinYet · 13/06/2017 19:36

sleep huge fan of Blair - I would not for one second lump Blair/Brown/Miliband in with Corbyn & McDonnell. 'New' labour only borrowed to avert a global financial meltdown.

I think the reason people feel there has been a lot of austerity is that they failed to comprehend the scale of the banking crisis that Brown averted.

I'd have more time for young people if they were saying: you know what, why don't you cut back on that really expensive free tuition commitment and roll it out for degrees in teaching, nursing, caring professions where the private benefit to the individual is smaller.

Or pensioners voting for JC who said - look JC, society can't afford the triple-lock, it's a tory policy that should never have been rolled out. Fund the NHS instead!

Are they doing that? No, somebody else will pay.

NoLotteryWinYet · 13/06/2017 19:41

the other thing I'd say is country comparisons have to be carefully done: we're not Scandinavia or Germany, we don't have their economies. We have to look at our strengths (financial services, not manufacturing, for example) and play to them, not hamper them.

You can't whack taxes up 20% and go voila: instant Scandinavia. We have long histories of different development.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 13/06/2017 19:52

Are those the same Financial services that are being hit by Brexit?

NoLotteryWinYet · 13/06/2017 19:54

hit by brexit, but still a key strength of the UK that is not easily remove-able. What do you think Corbyn's policies are to smooth Brexit for the financial service industry?

These are the sorts of questions we ought to be worrying about, for the sake of many of our jobs.

NoLotteryWinYet · 13/06/2017 19:55

the fact is, looking after our strengths - financial services, for example, is much simpler and more likely to be a success than trying to re-engineer manufacturing capability. Play to your strengths, whilst trying to grow new areas...we're not going to become Germany overnight.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 13/06/2017 19:58

I would hope would move us towards a more mixed economy. I would hope any government would do this. It's not just the left that have been discussing this issuewww.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d394dcbc-e9f4-11e6-893c-082c54a7f539&ved=0ahUKEwi2w8CbwLvUAhVkLMAKHSGBCV4QFgggMAE&usg=AFQjCNE1Zhpm6uUAPz8Ug86QDaVBF1bMJw

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 13/06/2017 20:00

No but Ireland could harvest alot of our FS jobs...the EU clearing house news today is not good

NoLotteryWinYet · 13/06/2017 20:02

surely all the more reason for Corbyn to have a FS job saving plan no? It's not a zero sum game - save FS jobs, create manufacturing jobs. Corbyn isn't paying enough attention to the private sector and job related questions like these.

NoLotteryWinYet · 13/06/2017 20:04

note that it's a rare period where manufacturing growth exceeds services - this is why this article is news. The fact is, we have low unemployment now, unlike most of the eurozone. This needs defending, it didn't happen by accident and it's not guaranteed - just look at 1 in 4 young people being unemployed IN the eurozone.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 13/06/2017 20:06

And May is? Not according to the mutterings in the City or amongst big business generally. No deal rather than a bad deal.......I don't think that has gone down well

May is in power. It's been nearly a year.

NoLotteryWinYet · 13/06/2017 20:11

i don't say either side has the right policies, but Corbyn has two big policies that are bad for the private sector: hiking the minimum wage and raising corporation tax in 2020 to 26%.

Now, regardless of the long term aim of these policies, he's implementing them too fast, as Brexit bites. This is not a good idea.

Both labour and cons are committed to hard brexit, labour could also end up with 'no deal'. Whatever they say.

prh47bridge · 13/06/2017 20:13

Despite your reservations or views on JC it is clear he has not gone back on his word since being elected as the leader of the opposition. He has stood by his word and fought a campaign based on policies he believed in

I haven't read the thread but this is complete rubbish. He has gone from being in favour of unilateral disarmament through saying he wouldn't get rid of nuclear weapons but he wouldn't use them under any circumstances to finally saying he might use them but wouldn't use them first. He has gone from being against shoot to kill under any circumstances to supporting shoot to kill. I could go on.

After a lifetime of sticking to the same political positions he had when he entered the Commons, he has proved himself to be like any other politician - willing to say whatever it takes to get elected. I'm not criticising him for this but the idea that he has stuck to his principles is ridiculous.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 13/06/2017 20:18

Labour is not in power. The Tory are. Their manifesto is bring threaded as we speak by the DUP and worries that a hard Brexit has cost them votes

Labour won't deliver a hard Brexit. It really isn't in their interests no matter what JMc spouts. Keir Starmer is shadow Brexit Minister. Do you think Labour will be the ones delivering no deal already when they haven't even been invited to the table?

The minimum wage should be increased we stop subsiding businesses with tax credits. I would go further and make zero hour contract illegal

Corporation tax should rise. To how much is negoitable in my book