To think it's a bit pathetic to start a petition against the Tory/DUP coalition and the losing team should just accept it?

[Ravenblack]

So now there's a petition against the Tory/DUP coalition!

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-results-dup-conservative-theresa-may-petition-deal-northern-ireland-a7783021.html

Why can people (generally left wing) not accept democratic decisions in this country? Labour LOST. Do people not get that? May might need to go into Coalition with the DUP to form a Government as she was 8 seats short of a majority, but she still got over FIFTY SEATS more than Corbyn. And Sturgeon slagging off Theresa May can pipe down too. SNP lost over 20 SEATS, (that went mostly to Conservative!!!) So she has no right to be up on the moral high ground!

Moreover, the whingeing left-wingers would not be moaning and griping if Labour had gone into a coalition with the DUP. It's a case of May can do no right in the eyes of some.

It was the same with the EU referendum. We're not happy with the democratic result of the people, so we will start a petition! And then it turned out 10's of 1000's of signatures were fake!

Why can people not just accept the result? Let's face it, if Corbyn had won, the people who aren't so keen on him would have sucked it up!

And also, let's not kid ourselves; Corbyn got many of his votes by promising the world on a plate, you name it, he was going to deliver it. Free this, free that, benefits for everyone, free uni fees, free school meals, bedroom tax gone, ESA assessments gone, benefit cap gone. Baby unicorns, and a million pounds for everyone!

No WAY would he have been able to deliver what he was promising, and many people know that.

Then after 5 years of undoing EVERYTHING the Conservatives have done, the economy would be screwed, Conservatives would have got back in, and they would have had to spend five years sorting it out. Leaving us in a worse position than we are in now. Do people not get that? Are they so blindsided by this ruggedly handsome urban hero promising the world, that they can't see what a monumental fuck up he would have made of the economy?

I think the young were entranced by him, as he became an urban hero, and was engaging and charming and likeable, whilst May was awkward and stiff. Anyone who said anything against Corbyn, and showed support for May was lambasted.

This ludicrous petition is not going to change anything. Conservatives won. They are going to go into a coalition with the DUP. May is not going to resign. Deal with it.

The acts of Brown are not the acts of Corbyn, in as much as the acts of Cameron are not the acts of May. It's a cheap and lazy attempt to slur. Ignoring that in 2010 both parties were in talks with nearly all other smaller parties, not just one.

Would there have been the outrage had Labour just run straight to the dup and no one else in 2010. Yes there would have been. Their views ally far less with those of moderate Labour members than the moderate conservatives who are making themselves well known.

Lokisglowstickofdestiny I think you've completely misunderstood Cory's post.

Hilarious that the fact May couldn't gain enough seats for a majority is all Corbyns fault. Or is it NSs? Or her advisors who resigned? Gosh I knew the woman could u-turn but the pirouetting on who is to blame is impressive even for May.

if reports on what Iain Paisley is saying, and what IP is saying are true).

To which Iain Paisley are you referring to?

I'm not a May supporter. I'm a Scottish green party supporter, but I am a supporter of democracy.
Large numbers of the people of NI vote for the unionist parties. They shouldn't be disenfranchised because other people disagree with their views.
If people felt this strongly about unionist politicians and Sinn Fein then they should have been campaigning no have NI out of the UK so their politicians have no say in Westminster. Many people seemed happy to ignore them until their views start to matter.
The most extreme unionist policies are never going to suddenly become Westminster policy any way.

How dare people use the democratic right of petitioning the government in a democracy.

Seems to me that the people that start these threads don't really understand democracy at all

Oh, and I knew I'd forgotten something - so I just signed the petition. Thanks, OP.

No I haven't misunderstood cory's post. I was picking up on her last line about a particular point in time. As for the rest of the post I don't disagree with all of it. At a particular point in time Brown and Milliband thought it politically expedient to have talks with the DUP, that's what May is doing - as far as I know no deal has been reached. So if Labour supporters feel as cory puts in her post that if Labour had done a deal they would have protested at that point - why protest now when no deal has yet been reached? Whether a deal is done or not isn't the point - both main parties are prepared to talk to other parties whose beliefs and ideals may not be palatable to everyone when it is politically expedient to do so.
I don't have a problem with a petition, it's the hypocrisy I do have an issue with.
Anyway by the time I finish this post they probably will have done a deal - but the weather is too nice to stay on here any longer!

There are people out there who have signed that petition who aren't Labour supporters. Lazy slurring and lazy assumptions.

"the losing team"

YABU for thinking politics is a sport

"So if Labour supporters feel as cory puts in her post that if Labour had done a deal they would have protested at that point - why protest now when no deal has yet been reached? "

Because that is the moment of time when there is any point in protesting- when the politicians in question have admitted that they are looking at a deal but before it has yet gone through, when they can still change their minds.

The conversations held by Labour under Brown were never presented to the electorate, which made it difficult for the electorate to protest. And there is not much point in protesting retrospectively, especially as nothing came of it. I don't spend much time these days protesting against the Iraqi war either, much as I still think that was wrong.

There is a question, going into Brexit negotiations, about whether the DUP/Tory regime is legitimate.

I also reminded them of the Brexit vote and that their future had been decided by people who would die before they were affected by it.

Yes, perhaps the elderly and people with terminal diseases shouldn't get a full vote

Whereas TM had the agreement signed off within hours AND the abortion time limit is already on the table for discussion

Have you got any evidence for that claim?

The acts of Brown are not the acts of Corbyn, in as much as the acts of Cameron are not the acts of May. It's a cheap and lazy attempt to slur

Goodness, mentioning political events that happened in the past is slurring now? We are further down the road than I thought.

And on the Iain Paisley point, I referred to IP jr in my first post. A couple if seconds googling will clarify to the confused (which I admit I was) that IP junior is now a DUP MP.

It's slurring when it's an attempt to say it's supporters and the party being hypocritical when leadership and support has changed. That stands for the actions of all parties, not just labour.

Whereas TM had the agreement signed off within hours AND the abortion time limit is already on the table for discussion.

No. The tories said they did, but then had to retract that statement.

Actually technically they didn't retract it, they superseded it, saying they were still in talks

That argument could only work 2rebecca if the DUP were actually representative of the majority of the population of NI. They're not in the slightest. The people who didn't vote for them, who form a majority of the NI voters, mostly really, really hate them. But because of FPTP they're able to get a majority of seats. It's instructive that in the recent NI Assembly elections, which use a PR system, the DUP got their worst result ever. But FPTP encourages people to polarise, especially at the moment.

This isn't about people not liking the Northern Irish, which is why eg the UUP throwing their hat in with the Tories in the 2010 elections didn't attract the same condemnation. It's about the DUP's values being utterly unacceptable to most people in the rest of the UK now (and indeed in NI really).

Blah.....do you feel better having got that rant off your chest OP?

I'm getting really confused by people's attitudes to democracy since Brexit.

Democracy means we can keep arguing the point not that we have a vote and then everyone suddenly agrees.

These people must get very confused about why the Whigs aren't still in power; after all, they won an election first.

These people must get very confused about why the Whigs aren't still in power; after all, they won an election first.

This. Not to mention how Brexit could ever happen, seeing that there was a referendum to join the EU.

I don't think people really understand how democracy-in particular a parliamentary democracy like ours- works.

Bewty interesting, apologies it seems you are right.

I'll rephrase:

Whereas TM launched into immediate talks which stopped over the weekend because Arlene didn't want to talk until Monday. Signed by the end of play Monday I imagine. But I have no source for my last sentence except my own sense of resignation with the whole bleedin' thing.

Abortion limit being talked about as a possible debate:

[[https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-conservative-dup-coalition-formal-cabinet-positions-northern-irish-mps-democratic-a7783741.html%3Famp ]]

Theresa, is that you? Hana bloody ha.