Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that most people on Mumsnet would like to live like this?

384 replies

Uktopia · 08/06/2017 08:36

I live in a European country and have done for twenty years.

After one to three years' maternity leave (paid by the state, not the employer), which can be taken by either parent, nursery care is free from the age of one until the start of school.

University is free and all who graduate high school are admitted. Child benefit (non-means-tested) is paid until the child is 27 as long as they are in education.

I can always see the GP the same day. I can self refer to 8 different specialists per year and often get an appointment within a week or two and sometimes the same or next day (for more than 8, the GP can refer). Dentists (and for children, orthodontists) are included. If you have a chronic health condition, you can be prescribed a spa stay of three weeks to a specialised centre to help you manage your condition. Medical-grade breast pumps are prescribed to new mothers. There is no concept of a waiting list for operations or treatment. Sick pay is paid by the health system, as is carer's leave when your kids are sick. Disability benefits are permanent where the disability is unlikely to improve; no revaluation needed. IVF is free for four cycles per child and you can have as many children as you would have wanted had you not had fertility problems (guess what, most people stop at two).

Social housing is plentiful and no private landlords are involved in the system at all. For families with children with average incomes, the waiting lists are short. In the private property market, there is rent control and a lot of protection for tenants, so people can feel that a rented house is a home. Property speculation is disincentivised so house prices are fair. The state offers interest free loans to improve the basic amenities of your home, such as heating.

Unemployment insurance pays 80% of your last wage (to a cap of approx. 2.5% of the average income). For the first 7 months you are not obliged to take a job that pays less than your previous one or that is not in your field; after that you have to jump through a few hoops but nothing like the jobcentre. If you lose your eligibility for unemployment and have no income, you get emergency money of approx. £700 per month for as long as it takes. Despite it being very easy to stay on benefits, unemployment is low and recent years have seen periods of full employment.

Every four years, if your employer agrees, you can take a one year educational sabbatical anywhere in the world and the state pays 80% of your salary. I got my Oxford graduate degree for free. My job was protected until I went back.

Public transport is faster than driving as services are so frequent. A full annual all zones pass in the capital city costs less than £1 a day. An annual pass covering all public transport in the whole country, unlimited, is approx. £950. The rail system is state owned and tickets are based on a per kilometre price, rather than being pushed up by market forces.

Crime is low. Kids walk to school alone from a young age and women walk home alone at night at 3am.

When I earned exactly the average income (then £12,000 p.a.) I paid almost zero tax. Now I earn a lot more, so pay a lot of tax, but from my net income I can still comfortably save 50% as the cost of living is low even in the capital. The economy is fairly buoyant in general and most people would count as prosperous in the UK.

There's no nanny state or increased governmental control (in fact, the UK exerts much more control over its citizens). There's just a general lack of anxiety about the trials of life such as unemployment or disability.

It's no utopia, and the people are so used to some of these provisions that they take them totally for granted.

The UK could have this, and to be honest, I think we'd do it better and appreciate it more. Hearing people ridicule magical money trees while living in a real system like this is heartbreaking.

Voting Conservative today will take us further from a country like this than ever before.

OP posts:
viques · 08/06/2017 10:06

I think the poster asking if you get state funded unicorns has got it about right.

But why oh why why are women walking home at 3 o clock in the morning. Are they not entitled to state funded taxis? What sort of a government allows the flowers of its nation to walk home , possibly in the rain, when a state funded taxi would ensure their wellbeing. I think you need to be asking serious questions OP, clearly this is not a society that really cares about the long term foot health of its citizens. Have you not seen the agony that a blister can cause?

shuangnick · 08/06/2017 10:06

are u kidding? does ur country explore a lot of oil like Dubai?or raise as much sheeps as Australia does? so how does the goverment live on with such a heavy cost on people living? don't regard me as a gosling

Firesuit · 08/06/2017 10:07

I don't know why people are giving the OP a hard time. I'm a conservative voter, and even I think its describing a nice place that does actually exist. (Whether we could recreate it here is another matter, but I'd certainly vote for us doing healthcare more like Germany or France.)

hereyougoagain · 08/06/2017 10:08

Moving to England (many years ago) from a supposedly less developed country was a shock in many many ways.

In Russia there is no such thing as specialist referral, all specialists are freely available in the same clinic where GP is and you self-refer to any without limit. If you are or your child are ill, it would be unheard of to expect an ill person to make their way to the surgery, doctor will visit you at home. You can even get your blood collected at home and tested the same day.
Actually if your child is about to start nursery/school or you are pregnant they/you have to pass a full medical with most specialists, they believe in spotting things early and prevention. No such thing as waiting lists for operations either.
State nurseries are so heavily subsidised they are affordable to anyone, and if you have 3+ kids they are free (though nursery age starts at 3, school starts at 6/7). After school clubs with hot meals till 6PM are free. Public transport is affordable for everyone, free for OAPs and subsidised for schoolchildren and students.
Maternity leave - you get some kind of salary for at least a year, and your job is protected for 3 years (from then you get a very cheap nursery). Musical schools are heavily subsidised by the school, you get 2 hours a week of music instrument tuition, an hour or more of choir and weekly music theory lesson, instruments could be hired for free. Lots of sports/art children's clubs are free, many are taught by really high level professionals.

Most land is common land, you can walk/camp wherever you like in the countryside :), fish for free in most lakes/rivers, hunt in forests and so on.
People in Russia take all the aforementioned for granted and vaguely assume it's like that in most developed countries.

My info might be outdated, I'm sure other Russians might come on and correct me, but I still have close family in Moscow so could find updated info if wanted ;).

Hmmm, one party I'm not going to vote for today is Labour, can think of barely anything worse than today's Labour...

dotandstripe · 08/06/2017 10:09

Some of it is possible but some is BS. Admitting everyone to university? (Do their plumbers and taxi drivers have a PhD too?) Child benefit until 27? No private landlords? No waiting list for operations?

All the above are definitely not the case in Finland or Sweden, by the way.

mortificado · 08/06/2017 10:12

Did you go through the other side of the glass or the wardrobe?
Do you ride a unicorn to work?

Coddiwomple · 08/06/2017 10:17

Sunfun11 Nothing against equality, why should we?

I CALL WINDSOR CASTLE! Here you go, happy days.

BartholinsSister · 08/06/2017 10:18

There can't be many European countries where you can get an "Oxford graduate degree".

BartholinsSister · 08/06/2017 10:18

There can't be many European countries where you can get an "Oxford graduate degree".

BartholinsSister · 08/06/2017 10:18

There can't be many European countries where you can get an "Oxford graduate degree".

BartholinsSister · 08/06/2017 10:19

oops!

Igneococcus · 08/06/2017 10:19

Not Germany!

Coddiwomple · 08/06/2017 10:19

Fair point though Bartholins Grin

disastrousflapjack · 08/06/2017 10:20

My DB lives in Germany. He is self-employed. He therefore has no employer to contribute to his healthcare costs. It was cheaper for him to take out health insurance through BUPA than go with one of the German companies offering health insurance. At 62 he now pays around 12,000e pa. It is a crippling amount of money.

The health care he has got over the years I am not impressed with at all. Yes you can self-refer but that doesnt mean you know which sort of specialist is most appropriate under the circumstances (unless you have medical knowledge). His equivalent of a GP has been hopeless when compared with UK GPs. And his dental care has been a nightmare. He has been offered treatment that is massively expensive and maybe unnecessary over the years. He has just had knee surgery and the physio was so aggressive and inappropriate that he ended up back on crutches and 5 months later is still having a lot of problems.

Yes childcare is better there but again, the education system isn't great. Not sure if it has changed but exams that are the equivalent of GCSE and that would be marked externally in the UK were marked by the children's teachers. One of DBs step-children has SN and over the years hasn't received anything like the support he would have been given in the UK. Basically both DBs partner and this lad have been left to get on with it :(

Life in any country isn't a bed of roses. I'd still prefer my children/grandchildren to have uk healthcare and education over what I've seen there.

ToeInTheWaterSlowly · 08/06/2017 10:21

"Voting Conservative today will take us further from a country like this than ever before".

But you apparently don't live in the UK so why are you referring to "us"?

^This. And hasn't done for 20 years. I can't stand this. If you've fucked off abroad permanently (non-UK tax payer, non-UK service user) you shouldn't be voting. It's about time they clamped down on this.

And why start a threat like this without naming the country? It's just goady and a bit thick really.

takesnoprisoners · 08/06/2017 10:22

ha ha ha ha ha ha.

BarbaraofSeville · 08/06/2017 10:25

The comments about Russia has made me notice that the OP hasn't mentioned retirement pensions.

Perhaps everything she says is true but the downside is that there are no retirement provisions or elderly care and you either have to work until you die, entirely self fund your retirement, or be cared for be relatives.

Someone I know is from a former Soviet Union country and that's the case for her parents who still live there. She might have to go back to look after them and help house them, because otherwise they won't be able to retire and health is failing.

nina2b · 08/06/2017 10:26

The BS detector is red.

(Who would have the time to create such a thing?)

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 10:26

I'm in Germany and the kids get child benefit until age 27 while in education. And they can also go to court and make their parents pay towards their needs, too. My son is 17; I have another 10 years of paying towards his upkeep, most likely. I'll be 57 then.

Can't be Germany, though, as people in my part of Germany are extremely worried about unemployment, especially a perceived threat from immigrants. They are out on the street protesting on a regular basis. And taxes and various insurances mean that you lose a huge chunk of your income, especially as a low earner.

Whatever country it is, in any case, you couldn't just take that system and transfer it to the UK. There would be a civil war. Here in East Germany, where parts of the Western system were forcibly applied very quickly after 40 years of separation, many people are still not happy with the new way. Even though it wasn't that unfamiliar.

scottishdiem · 08/06/2017 10:30

Higher taxes on other things though. Like alcohol etc.

People in the UK think they can have low taxes and higher government spending. The maths doesnt work but enough voters believe the politicians that tell them this.

stratospheric · 08/06/2017 10:33

I think Austria.

Not sure about all details and OP is obvs deliberately bigging it up but most boxes ticked. Yes, population is small.

Having said that, the long summer evenings are heavenly, there's plenty to do, the landscape is gorgeous and yes, child benefit till 27 if offspring in full-time education is absolutely true, as is the public transport and the medical-grade breast pump. Don't all rush at once Grin

hereyougoagain · 08/06/2017 10:33

As far as I know from my British expat friends, you are NOT allowed to vote if you haven't lived in UK for 15+ years, all of them think it's fair.

Otherpeoplesteens · 08/06/2017 10:34

When will you Corbynista trolls wake up to the fact that the UK's economy as a whole and per-worker productivity in particular simply does not generate the wealth needed to support a tax base to fund your utopia.

And even if we had the wealth-creating capacity in the economy the UK population as a whole, by any recognised global standard, is so poorly educated (thanks, Anthony Crosland) that we'd have to import immigrants to do those jobs too.

previouslyanumber · 08/06/2017 10:35

This seems appropriate somehow

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 10:35

I'm not allowed to vote for that reason, hereyougoagain. I think it's fair enough if you are not planning to return to the UK, but I was bloody pissed off that I didn't get any say on Brexit, which will definitely be affecting my life.