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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that most people on Mumsnet would like to live like this?

384 replies

Uktopia · 08/06/2017 08:36

I live in a European country and have done for twenty years.

After one to three years' maternity leave (paid by the state, not the employer), which can be taken by either parent, nursery care is free from the age of one until the start of school.

University is free and all who graduate high school are admitted. Child benefit (non-means-tested) is paid until the child is 27 as long as they are in education.

I can always see the GP the same day. I can self refer to 8 different specialists per year and often get an appointment within a week or two and sometimes the same or next day (for more than 8, the GP can refer). Dentists (and for children, orthodontists) are included. If you have a chronic health condition, you can be prescribed a spa stay of three weeks to a specialised centre to help you manage your condition. Medical-grade breast pumps are prescribed to new mothers. There is no concept of a waiting list for operations or treatment. Sick pay is paid by the health system, as is carer's leave when your kids are sick. Disability benefits are permanent where the disability is unlikely to improve; no revaluation needed. IVF is free for four cycles per child and you can have as many children as you would have wanted had you not had fertility problems (guess what, most people stop at two).

Social housing is plentiful and no private landlords are involved in the system at all. For families with children with average incomes, the waiting lists are short. In the private property market, there is rent control and a lot of protection for tenants, so people can feel that a rented house is a home. Property speculation is disincentivised so house prices are fair. The state offers interest free loans to improve the basic amenities of your home, such as heating.

Unemployment insurance pays 80% of your last wage (to a cap of approx. 2.5% of the average income). For the first 7 months you are not obliged to take a job that pays less than your previous one or that is not in your field; after that you have to jump through a few hoops but nothing like the jobcentre. If you lose your eligibility for unemployment and have no income, you get emergency money of approx. £700 per month for as long as it takes. Despite it being very easy to stay on benefits, unemployment is low and recent years have seen periods of full employment.

Every four years, if your employer agrees, you can take a one year educational sabbatical anywhere in the world and the state pays 80% of your salary. I got my Oxford graduate degree for free. My job was protected until I went back.

Public transport is faster than driving as services are so frequent. A full annual all zones pass in the capital city costs less than £1 a day. An annual pass covering all public transport in the whole country, unlimited, is approx. £950. The rail system is state owned and tickets are based on a per kilometre price, rather than being pushed up by market forces.

Crime is low. Kids walk to school alone from a young age and women walk home alone at night at 3am.

When I earned exactly the average income (then £12,000 p.a.) I paid almost zero tax. Now I earn a lot more, so pay a lot of tax, but from my net income I can still comfortably save 50% as the cost of living is low even in the capital. The economy is fairly buoyant in general and most people would count as prosperous in the UK.

There's no nanny state or increased governmental control (in fact, the UK exerts much more control over its citizens). There's just a general lack of anxiety about the trials of life such as unemployment or disability.

It's no utopia, and the people are so used to some of these provisions that they take them totally for granted.

The UK could have this, and to be honest, I think we'd do it better and appreciate it more. Hearing people ridicule magical money trees while living in a real system like this is heartbreaking.

Voting Conservative today will take us further from a country like this than ever before.

OP posts:
Abitofaproblem · 08/06/2017 10:36

Still no news of where "The Country" is? Ok, I will come back later.

Brittbugs80 · 08/06/2017 10:37

Ravenmum how do you feel about that? About supporting him financially till he's 27?

shinyredbus · 08/06/2017 10:39

do you live in Narnia? Grin Ok - ill bite. Do you live in Pandora AND are you blue? Smile

raindropstea · 08/06/2017 10:40

I also thought Germany. I had an American friend who married a German and she was always "Germany this, Germany that" and how Germany does everything better. It gets exhausting to listen to.

BartholinsSister · 08/06/2017 10:41

I'd guess you'd need plenty of high-earning taxpayers to fund such a society, is there a political party that would attract/encourage such people?

stratospheric · 08/06/2017 10:42

ToeInThe Water You can stop frothing at the mouth, "they" clamped down years ago. Have you never heard of the 15-year rule?

Natsku · 08/06/2017 10:46

Not sure what country it is but its definitely not Finland. But Finland is still light years ahead of the UK when it comes to a proper welfare state (nowhere near as 'perfect' as in the OP but a lot of parts fit) and its perfectly possible for the UK to have that too and wouldn't even require much more tax but would require a re-jigging of where tax money is spent and a cultural shift towards being more collective rather than individualistic.

I do like the long parental leave, the fact that I can self-refer to any specialist (but have to pay for it, no free at point of service health system except for maternity care and child health clinics), the sabbatical leaves (companies take on an unemployed person at practically no cost while their employee is off), the excellent education and affordable childcare, and the importance placed on taking care of nature.

The weather ain't so bad either really, you get used to it and when summer does show up its bright and glorious and makes you feel so much joy in life.

user1471545174 · 08/06/2017 10:49

Finland can be "collectivist" because it has a small population of mostly Finns.

Dandandandandandandan · 08/06/2017 10:52

Why does everyone think it's a real country? I thought it was hypothetical, i.e. Vote for ST Jezza of Islington and this could be your life??

sparechange · 08/06/2017 10:52

lemon
So if my narc mother lived in Germany and decided that her tiredness was a sure sign she has cancer, she can self refer to an oncologist, no questions asked?
And then when she decides she is about to have a heart attack, she can go and waste the time of a cardiologist and ad infinitum, and there is no gate keeper to her wasting hours and hours of specialists time, month after month after month?

And it is all free?

That seems the opposite of what any health system should aim for tbh

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 10:54

Brittbugs80 I feel worried, as my income can fluctuate by 10,000 euros a year yet I still pay fixed costs for my various insurances. When I'm old I'll be able to find a small, cheap flat and live on beans, but it is not something I'm especially looking forward to.

Dandandandandandandan · 08/06/2017 10:54

But yes, anyone who looks at a country with a population of about 5-8,000,000, ie less than London, and thinks it's a good model for the multicultural and rather divided (Scotland, wales, Ireland, England) U.K. with a population of over 60,000,000 is on a different planet.

It's like saying, why doesn't cycling work in London like it does in Amsterdam? Look how green and healthy Amsterdam is. well, yeah, but the population in Amsterdam is about 1/10th and because it was built to accommodate bikes so they already know, like and trust them as a method of transport.

Natsku · 08/06/2017 10:55

It actually has very significant minorities (roma people in particular, not immigrants but ones that have been here for centuries) that have never been "assimilated" for want of a better word. Finland isn't as homogeneous as people think, and even less now as immigration has been quite a lot. Don't blame people for not knowing, Finland always presents itself a bit differently than the reality.

Slimthistime · 08/06/2017 10:56

hypothetical?

actually I would like people to take more financial responsibility for their children, not less. Definitely no free IVF. Not convinced by free uni either. if the degree is so vital to work, paying for it through work after you've done is not such an awful concept is it? If I'm a cleaner who didn't go to uni, why should my tax go to pay for all courses from photography to medicine?

so many things wrong with the "utopia" you describe, it's hard to know where to start.

i was going to abstain today but now I'm not sure.

stratospheric · 08/06/2017 10:58

OP doesn't say anywhere that the healthcare is free, spare

WalkingOnLeg0 · 08/06/2017 11:01

Why would you get child benefit until your children are 27? Surly they would go to free university and live in free halls of residence with free meals when they are 18. Why would anyone in this scenario work ever? Is this Cuba?

Sunfun11 · 08/06/2017 11:02

"Definitely no free IVF." Bloody hell. Nasty.

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties · 08/06/2017 11:02

This is surely hypothetical, a "vision" for the UK. The clue's in the user name; UKTopia.

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 08/06/2017 11:02

Sounds nice OP but it isn't what the British want. I don't think that they would even mind the taxation levels, it's the idea that if they had all of that, their neighbours would have to have it too and they fecking hate their each other.

They will also hate you for mentioning that it's different in other countries, because it's vaguely political and how dare you talk out loud about politics, how offensive is that?

Anyway, after 20 years some of that foreign will have rubbed off on you, so you've no right to notice what the UK is like.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 08/06/2017 11:03

I bet iannunicorn that OP won't be back.

stratospheric · 08/06/2017 11:03

Slim Under the system the OP describes, I assume the cleaner would probably be earning below the tax threshold?

And as ravenmum pointed out, in Germany (and Austria too, incidentally) you are required by law to take financial responsibility for your children.

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 11:05

Hearing people ridicule magical money trees while living in a real system like this is heartbreaking.
She lives in a real system like this, apparently.

explodingkittens · 08/06/2017 11:06

God this thread is depressing.

Why are so many in this country so excited about winning the race to the bottom?

Sneering at a poster who simply suggests things could be done differently. Ridiculing those who agree. Utter incomprehension at the thought of anything, anything but maintaining the status quo.

I really despair of what we've become. We are already a laughing stock in Europe and we just seem so desperate to keep it that way.

clairethewitch70 · 08/06/2017 11:07

Good morning Labourbot. Here have by first biscuit Biscuit

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/06/2017 11:10

Sneering at a poster who simply suggests things could be done differently

calm down! I happen to know that life is different and in many ways better in north Europe, I happen to work for an international company with international colleagues, does OP think we don't already know this shit?

Nothing against OP but her simplistic statement didn't tell me anything I didn't know already