to wonder why MN is so let wing

[strawberrygate]

That's it really; MN seems to be overwhelmingly Labour leaning and that's not obviously indicative of the country as a whole, and I'm under the impression that MN covers a very wide social/ economic spectrum so you'd think it would be more representative of the electorate a s a whole
Rational non insulting reasons would be good

Lady - I keep hearing people saying that they are so shocked by the politics of recent years and that they are in 'their bubble' so don't understand how this vote went this way or that.

Maybe if they stopped aggressively shutting people down they'd be less shocked by election results, referendum results etc. It's like a collective 'la la la'

"And Holocaust denial, which used to be confined to the far-right, is now often a left-wing cause..."

I think you should retract that,

olliegarchy I am indeed being facetious as I dislike the Tories and they exasperate me. If you are not well off, I am slightly baffled about why on earth you would vote for them. It is plain fact that they cut public services, slash benefits and make life easier for the rich, harder for the poor. I can see why someone who works in the shipyards, for example, would vote for them as the defence budget will make their job safer, but that is one isolated example of when a less well-off would be better off voting for them.

Obviously you can't generalise all the time, but it is objectively true that the Tory party works against the poor and for the rich. And a lot of the time less well off voters can't see the wood for the trees on that, and the media has a lot to answer for. I live in a 'deprived' part of London and while it a safe red area, the current government has caused untold social damage, that even if Labour get in tomorrow will take years to reverse.

I think Tory voters stay quiet

A lot of Corbyn's friends would consider themselves left wing because they hate Israel and America, for example, even though they also support the death penalty for gays, compulsory head covering for women, etc, which aren't traditional left-wing belief. And Holocaust denial, which used to be confined to the far-right, is now often a left-wing cause

This is utter fucking bollocks, sorry.
"Corbyns friends"??!!!
No they are not!

Holocaust denial- in my very leftwing circle, ifthis was even mentioned, that person would be out like a shot.

I know lots and lots of left wing people, not one of them "hates" America or Israel, and none of them agree with any of the other codswallop in your post.

See, this is part of the problem.
If you question Israels policies you can get shut down as an anti-semite.
If you question America you "hate" them.

If you think there might be a way forward rather than blowing random people up, you are accused of siding with the scumbags.

I suppose you think I'm a terrorist sympathiser for suggesting there might be a better way??

And yeah the right wing are so well known for their embracing of gay people, and the liberation of women, right??

You know the Daily Mail supported the Nazis right?

No Lana you have tried to goad me. Like Rocket said, I identify witht he right more than left, I don't want to debate or persude. I've made my decision and have already voted - I came on here to see what the opinion of the thread was.

I do think the art of debating seems to have died and then shock and horror when the votes comes in not as you are expecting. as you are not going to change a persons political view with insults. I am refusing to open Facebook at the moment.

And Holocaust denial, which used to be confined to the far-right, is now often a left-wing cause...

Bull-fucking-shit.

It's amazingly (un)surprising that posts like Smeaton's are not met with debate/attempts at refute but tired "hurr durr you need to get out more" nonsense.

I think MN is a good example of why Labour is in such a mess. And why it is just about to allow the Tories to win an election.

Too many current Labour activists believe that the way to win an election is to carpet bomb social media. They think they're setting the tone - which they are, but not in the way they believe.

Momentum have very little idea about people politics. And nor does JC.

It's not in a mess though now

And yeah, i'm with Bertrand. You need to retract that utter shite about holocaust denial.

The stuff about holocaust denial is so, so insulting, I don't know where to start.
Where are all these right wingers when the real racists come to town, huh?

Where are all the rightwingers directly protesting against the people that give them a bad name, like the EDL or Britain First?

When I go to an anti-racist demo (where holocaust denial would get you a kicking and a ban from furure events) there are never any right wingers there.

How dare you fucking say that the left agrees with the deaths of gays and subjucation of women.
It is the left who fought for years for gay and womens rights.

The right wing did everything it could to stop them ffs.

Learn some history.

In have never tried to goad you Babs.
Not once at all.

anyone can go through my posts and check- it's all their in black and white for proof

I merely want a polite and sensible debate.
But apprently trying to have one is "goading".

Classic example of Tory goading then crying bullying once prople react.

It's not in a mess though now

Indeed, all those divisions and votes of no confidence in JC, and plots to get rid of him, and not allowing constituency Labour parties to meet, and MPs refusing to join the shadow cabinet, all dissolved into thin air the day that TM called the election. Gone, just like that.

Once again, I have been nothing but polite.
I challenge anyone to go through myposts and find even one that has been even vaguely goady.

I hope they do.

This site is so left wing it needs its own specially adapted keyboard. badtaste also sums up the reason why I ditched Social media a while back. I am done with all the shouty nonsense. I am interested in facts not memes.

And smeaton, that "cunt" tastic post basically proves the exact reason why those of us who are not raving socialists tend to duck the debate. It is tiresome to go round in the same abusive circular dialogue.

And Fuck statistics,
I am under 40, have 2 children under 18 and am degree level educated as is my husband. We are centrists with a slightly right lean. Doesnt fit with the earlier link regarding 'types who vote labour' does it?

themonkey

A political party where the PLP and the leadership are at loggerheads is a mess.

A political leader who cannot raise a decent front bench is in a mess.

A party that gets rid of its SHS the day before an election is in a mess.

A party that doesn't mind if it wins this election or not and will still declare victory if it loses seats is in a mess.

A party where decent activists are bullied and silenced by Momentum is in a mess.

there does seem to be a high level of insults against Tories which I don't see against labour voters.

We see what we want to see and skim over what we don't. I support neither party; I'd say the insults fall pretty evenly.

I'd be interested to know if anyone ever gets called an evil labour supporter with no empathy or regards for anyone else in society.

The wording of insults varies by party. However, try 'Remainer' in the context above, and you'd find a fair sample.

I don't express my political views on MN because it is so totally left wing. Will be voting conservative despite the fact that under a Labour government we will be financially better off. We currently choose to pay for our two children's university fees (£30,000 each) because we can afford to and we also chose to educate them in the private sector for their whole education - luckily have never had to claim any type of benefit and we have put into the system a huge amount in tax. However, under a Labour government we will be better off - but I still won't vote for them. Corbyn, in my view, is utterly useless.

It's amazingly (un)surprising that posts like Smeaton's are not met with debate/attempts at refute but tired "hurr durr you need to get out more" nonsense
are you referring to their post which called conservatives cunts? Not sure I'd know how to debate that

I mean... I hope someone does go through my posts, because if they do they will clearly see there has been absolutely no goading, bullying, name calling ar insulting whatsoever.

I am proud to be able to debate without stooping to such lows.

I am literally that I have been accused of goading.

I say again, I fear for the future of this country when healthy and polite debate can be shut down as "goading".

Sorry, here is badtastes post that I utterly agree with, forgot to include above.

"I think MN reflects my live in general atm - Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc is full of Left Wing opinions - it's really getting on my tits. I go on social media for a bit of gossip and a laugh, not for a party political broadcast."

This site is so left wing it needs its own specially adapted keyboard

Is that meant to be some kind of bizarre disablist insult? I'm struggling to find more reasonable interpretations, as I've only ever heard the phrase in that sort of context. Hopefully you'll be able to put me right.

And Holocaust denial, which used to be confined to the far-right, is now often a left-wing cause...

You stand by this do you @samg76?

Disgusting.

I think some Tories love being called cunts so they can get on their high horse, seriously. I have never given them satisfaction though. The faux outrage is pathetic