to wonder why MN is so let wing

[strawberrygate]

That's it really; MN seems to be overwhelmingly Labour leaning and that's not obviously indicative of the country as a whole, and I'm under the impression that MN covers a very wide social/ economic spectrum so you'd think it would be more representative of the electorate a s a whole
Rational non insulting reasons would be good

And BAbs - if you don't want to debate, don't come on threads that are for debate.

I'll come on any thread I like - You are a typical Leftie trying to shut down anyone who doesn't have the same views. This is exactly what this thread is about so thank you for demonstrating it so well.

No wonder this country is fucked when people hold strong political views but make absolutely no effort to check fact and figures, and when presented with them try and shut down debate.

Does it occur to you that people may vote for a particular party for reasons other than "checking facts and figures"?!?!?

I am Conservative voter. I have no interest in checking facts and figures. Irrespective what your "facts and figures" say, I will vote Conservative because:

No. 1. My personal views are ideologically in line with conservative values and not socialist left wing values. The precise details actually don't matter to me because in principle I support what a Conservative party with conservative values is aiming to achieve.

No. 2 I think Theresa May is a far more competent leader than anything else on offer.

No. 3 My own personal interests mean that in terms of personal taxation I will be better off under a Conservative government.

Not everyone is interested in statistics - lies damned lies and statistics don't forget!

Lovely I have been branded a terrorist sympathiser and someone said I didn't care about dead children because I aired a leftwing view

IT WORKS BOTH WAYS YOU KNOW!

I know at least 2 Conservative voters who regularly tweet and retweet on Twitter calling labour voters leftards, libtards, snowflakes, bigots, players of the race and gender card, racists, remoaners, loonies terrorist sympathisers, hypocritical, metropolitan liberal elite, fake news purveyors and more.

Well that is obviously representative of the majority of Conservative voters then.

Strawberrygate "If it stops the hideous massacres we've had recently then revisiting and, where appropriate, revisions made then I for one am all for it.
Clearly you think otherwise ☹️"
Here's an example from this morning. It'll probably get deleted because it's from another thread. But there are plenty more.

I can't be bothered to argue with strangers on t'internet and we are living through an era where we are only allowed to express The Correct Opinion so I keep quiet. I imagine a lot of other people keep quiet for the same reason.

On the whole I think you won't find your Tory demographic here e.g. retired men and women. The other large group you won't find are the large swathes of people who just don't particularly do social media. A lot will be business owners, workers on ok to good wages who are concerned about tax rises, safe pair of hands etc.

But Babs can you not see the glaring irony in your post??

I have tried countless times to engage in a factual conversation with you.
You then tell me you don't want to engage in debate.
Then you accuse me of trying to shut down debate, when I have clearly been trying to do the opposite.

What do you want?
Do you want healthy deabte and a to and fro?
Or the ability to say what you like without challenge?

I have asked politely lots of times on various threads for you o explain your thinking.
IT IS YOU WHO HAS SHUT DOWN DEBATE BY REFUSING TO ENGAGE!

I take that to mean you don't agree the security measures will stop the attacks. Failing to see how it's calling you a terrorist sympathiser?

I find it really left wing. I don't especially want to be called a Cuntservative or other abusive names just because I would choose to vote differently so I don't bother posting anything political. Not worth the hassle.

I didn't say it was all toured Clark, just provided an anecdote as people up thread have said that they have never/rarely seen Tories abusing the left.

Looking
I am talking about people who say things as fact, then when they are presented with the actual facts, ignore or shut down.

Lots of shy Tories around, just like in life. They vote Tory because they are well off and it works out best for them but they know they are shafting the poor people so they keep schtum!

Bertrand, you defended the poster for the following statement,
Unless you are a Tory voter and are no longer identifying as human, of course.
You called it a light hearted joke.
I am not a Tory and I am a member of the Lib Dems but I am fairly shocked by Lefties who shut down political debate by name calling posters who disagree with them.

Recently on a thread I have seen conservative voters called 'not human' and far too much nasty abuse is on mumsnet but it pales to insignificance by the rabid left-leaning posts on gransnet.
So it is not necessarily young against older generations who abuse the 'right-leaning voters'.
I think it is very childish but heyho let them swear and abuse others if it makes them feel better

I dont think it is particularly left wing. I think both sides are present but the tories are obviously struggling to say much good about their party anymore, so theyll vote but are unable to defend their views. Shy tories

Fair enough, strawberry. You can take it to mean that. It didn't, though.

I got told i was a 'turkey voting for Christmas' when I mentioned I was considering voting for my local conservative MP who had been so helpful with my PIP claim.

"Bertrand, you defended the poster for the following statement,
Unless you are a Tory voter and are no longer identifying as human, of course.
You called it a light hearted joke."

That's because it was a joke.

Well then.
We can all agree there has been name calling on both sides can't we??

It's not right, which ever side it comes from.
It stifles debate and shuts it down.

But Righties as well as lefties have to take some responsibility.

And the out and out refusal to actually engage in a debate is very, very frustrating to both sides.

There.

Absolutely, YogaAndRum.

I like a good political debate, but frequently there's no debate on here. Just self-righteous and quite aggressive posters. There are the usual culprits who are involved in a tortuous system of victim Top Trumps, eg the Cologne attacks where women found themselves way down the sympathy ratings compared with their assailants. There are always a couple of posters who are in a race every time there is a terrorist attack to suggest we spare a thought for the bomber and his family.

bear that is what I mean
I am not well-off - total income after tax is £12K p.a.
I am not shafting the poor - far from it but you obviously see conservative voters as one homogeneous mass.

I do not see labour/libdem votes as one group

And what Bear has posted really backs up my reasons for staying away from a debate like this. You have no idea of my means, my charitable donations, my personal circumstances but to you I am shafting the poor. Sad and it is people like you who shut down any reasonable debate.

I am a floating voter, though generally quite middle of the road. I also voted remain in the referendum.

I have more or less decided to vote LibDem this time as I can't stand the smug and headmistress type style of Theresa May. She also seemed to think that she could just run the whole thing on Brexit alone, so she kind of seemed to forget to have any other policies. Also, I am reluctant to trust a remain campaigner and voter who is now apparently a convert to Hard Brexit.

Corbyn has grown on me throughout the campaign and I do like some of his policies. However, I am wary of how it will all be paid for. I prefer his softer approach to Brexit.

The LibDems have consistently spoken much more of my language since the referendum. So, I am likely to vote for them, even though I disagree with the policy of legalising cannabis and it very nearly put me right off. I really cannot understand why it was put in the manifesto, except as a gimmick.

So most likely LibDem here.

One of the problems is that right and left wing are pretty meaningless nowadays. A lot of Corbyn's friends would consider themselves left wing because they hate Israel and America, for example, even though they also support the death penalty for gays, compulsory head covering for women, etc, which aren't traditional left-wing belief. And Holocaust denial, which used to be confined to the far-right, is now often a left-wing cause...