to wonder why MN is so let wing

[strawberrygate]

That's it really; MN seems to be overwhelmingly Labour leaning and that's not obviously indicative of the country as a whole, and I'm under the impression that MN covers a very wide social/ economic spectrum so you'd think it would be more representative of the electorate a s a whole
Rational non insulting reasons would be good

I thought Chomsky didn't endorse the view but upheld the right for someone to hold it, however repellent - like Voltaire? Is that not right?

This guy, however, seems to think it's accurate! www.amazon.co.uk/Partners-Hate-Chomsky-Holocaust-Deniers/dp/0964589702?tag=mumsnetforum-21

It was a deliberate attempt to smear the whole left wing as holocaust deniers.
It was rude, insulting and entirely inaccurate.

Some Tories and Kippers are massively racist.
Some idiots on all sides come out with stupid stuff about the holocaust.

Can I tar all Tory supporters as Saudi supporting terrorist sympathisers because TM clearly supports them......no?

Then don't imply that all lefties are holocaust deniers.

There is shit on all sides.

Iwould never, ever defend holocaust denial/ anti- semitism/ racism etc etc etc.

But I also won't tar all supporters of a thing, by the actions of a tiny minority of them.

However, I do notice a lot of right wing people do tend to class anything not right wing as left wing, even though often the views are centrist.

That is also true from the other side though, apparently we as a country are turning into an extreme far right dictatorship if some posters are to be believed.

Also before the GE was elected anyone not in support of Corbyn no matter if they where life long Labour members where considered right wing and should "Fuck of to the tories!!"

"Gosh Bertrand, your poor report button must be quite worn out, the amount of times you like to announce you're using it!"

Sorry, wrong person. I practically never report.

And I reiterate.

No name calling is acceptable, neither are broad sweeping statements.

To debate the facts- that should be our aim.

apparently we as a country are turning into an extreme far right dictatorship if some posters are to be believed.

Well when May makes threats about ripping up the Human Rights Act in a last ditch attempt to win votes you can see why some people might believe that.

lana - I didn't say all left wingers were Holocaust deniers. There are of course deniers on all parts of the spectrum, but the difference is that a BNP member who trivialised it would admit to being racist and would probably be quite proud of it. Livingstone, along with momentum activists who peddle dubious anti-semitic material (I'm not going to link to the cartoons, as I'm nervous about giving them more publicity, but it's not difficult to track down images of hook nosed omni-powerful Jews ) would consider themselves anti-racist.....

I agree with you Op. Sometimes it seems as if you criticise Socialists or 'cuddly' JC, you're somehow killing babies!!

Only yesterday, someone painted star of David earrings on a poster of Theresa May in Bristol. This used to be a preserve of the far-right. Who do you think did it this time?

a) BNP
b) Tories
c) Blairites
d) Momentum fans

Social media participants tend to be left of centre rather than otherwise. Or so the social media manager at my last workplace said, based on research current at the time (about 18 months ago). So if that's your impression of Mumsnet, then maybe you're right.

On the other hand, you may just be seeing a few threads, remembering a few posts more than others, and forming your view based on a partial perception. Who knows? Who cares, really?

I agree that some of the name calling just makes me think its not worth bothering. I work with all sorts of different people and I have heartily fed up with the lefties view that all Tories are uncaring twats.

So, I don't often engage. Its makes them look rather silly so I just go and vote the way I want

And May did not 'threaten to rip up the HRA'. She said, "If our human rights laws stop us from doing it, we'll change the laws so that we can do it." We still live in a parliamentary democracy. So far as I know, any government wanting to change law, has to pass it in the HoC, and the Lords.

Which is not to say that I don't think security is being made a political issue. Security is a fundamental that we expect governments to deliver, so why would anyone be surprised that it is being made political?

I think MN does have a left wing bias. And yes, in general social media is disproportionately left wing compared to the population. Twitter is more left wing than Facebook, but still more than the population - mostly due to an age bias.

I'm a Tory and mostly lie low as I'm sick of being called a cunt. I've tried to have sensible debates but they always deteriorate into mud-slinging.
As soon as someone starts swearing and name-calling they lose my respect and I pretty much assume they're ignorant if they have to resort to profanity rather than proper words to make their point!

The problem with just posting endless links to 'facts' supporting your point of view is that they can nearly always be refuted with an identical set of similar 'facts' supporting the opposite view. I'm happy to research things and form a point of view (and change it if necessary) but I haven't the time, or inclination, to justify it with a bunch of strangers who just want to spam the board with their angry rants.

I have a degree in Economics and could wax lyrical with a reasoned debate as to why Jeremy Corbyn's manifesto hasn't got a cat in hell's chance of being deliverable, but in an age when experts are derided, what's the point?

I'd much rather have a civil, grown up debate with people in real life - as I did with some friends last night. We didn't agree, but we did concede elements of each other's arguments, and at the end of the day we hadn't changed our minds, but we were still friends!

'but in an age when experts are derided, what's the point?'

Ah yes, Michael 'Britain's had enough of experts' Gove. Is he going to be May's successor?

hear, hear jng, I know plenty of economists, and none of them are tories, or fans of Corbyn's manifesto.

The young Corbynistas would tell us we're all working to outdated paradigms though.

I dont understand why Tories are so bothered about being called cunts. They are in power, they will almost certainly remain in power. Surely that matters more to them?

And frankly, as their ideology has made my life intolerable - basically I should have been an "ill" person but am now long-term disabled due to no treatment as NHS services cut, not to mention the hell of beenfits system - then they quite rightly deserve all the insults flung at them.

How can you possibly object to being called selfish cunts when you have chosen to do this to my life?

There are problems with both (all?) manifestos, but Labour's is the most pie in the sky. They've all been thrown together too quickly.

I find young Corbynistas will tell you anything which they think will get your vote..

All, bar one, of the economists I know are Tories. The other is a LibDem.
None think everything is right in the Tory manifesto by any means, but it's the one which is most likely to secure our economic future.
Corbyn has no government experience of managing anything and would be a disaster.

Great post jng

jng are you meaning currently planning to vote for the conservatives, or lifelong conservatives? I can agree I know some currently not voting for Corbyn, who are not lifelong conservative voters - most economists these days support markets, with some state intervention or otherwise.

This is all ridiculous - which is a shame because there are so many interesting people on here.

I have got star of David earrings - given to me by my Jewish friend as a present from Israel. Are they supposed to be bad now??

I also have specially adapted things - and not because I am disabled _ I am not. (When you move countries a lot of your stuff has to be specially adapted). I am always specially adapting things for my own use. The joke was funny, why assume offense?

There is a left wing bias for reasons already mentioned and that's fine. There are sites which for similar reasons tend the other way.

I would like to see a discussion of the issues especially as they pertain to people's individual circumstances. Opinions and links to "facts" I can get anywhere. What I can't get are the stories

UKIPpers and Tories don't need to ask for advice, as they already know all the answers.

I also figure a lot of Tory voters are elderly or dim folk who don't use the internet, judging by my parents and their circle.

and if you can't understand why someone dislikes being called that, heathen, that's a worry - although I can understand why you feel so strongly about it. What the conservatives have done around disability benefits is not something I support. I wish labour had focused on doing fewer things better.

NoLottery - the former - they're planning to vote Tory in this election as they think Corbyn's policies are too much of a throwback to the 70s and will cripple us. Some of them were probably 'New Labour' in previous elections. I agree - market driven with some state intervention.

yes, absolutely, we can't for the life of us figure out how so many have been duped by policies that haven't been tried in nearly 50 years - for good reason - they were a disaster.

Holds hand up as derided twatty blairite. Can we have 1997 all over again? Can we talk about the beautiful way Blair introduced the minimum wage and put it in the hands of experts at the low pay commission? :)

I see - so all Tories are elderly dim... same old, same old.