to wonder why MN is so let wing

[strawberrygate]

That's it really; MN seems to be overwhelmingly Labour leaning and that's not obviously indicative of the country as a whole, and I'm under the impression that MN covers a very wide social/ economic spectrum so you'd think it would be more representative of the electorate a s a whole
Rational non insulting reasons would be good

MN isn't really left-wing at all, nor is it particularly right wing.

It is more that there are a lot of vocal posters that hold views that you could describe as being the perspectives of the modern "liberal establishment", a bizarre and rather self-serving mix of internationalist and social justice ideals that, in reality, have rather strict parameters on the ground, along with the incorporation of right wing ideas such as the sanctity of private property and individual privacy and agency.

These have become associated with being "left-wing", probably because these views infected the Labour party under Blair and the left wing of the Tory party under Cameron. They also form the bedrock of what people perceive to be "BBC bias", and this is why the left thinks the BBC is right-wing and the right thinks the BBC is left-wing.

What is truly bizarre at the moment is the extent to which people that adhere to the principles and ideas of the liberal establishment are moving towards support for Corbyn. Corbyn is a 1970s international revolutionary socialist from a privileged background (surprise! ) whose fellow travellers (Milne, McDonnell, Murray) are even more radical (ie. supporting vastly authoritarian measures) than he is. These are people who think Stalin was the best thing since sliced bread; if they were on the "right", they'd be Nazi apologists.

At some point, the reality is going to dawn on some people that the sheep they favour aint a sheep at all. That should be somewhat fascinating. Interestingly, the only people that are trying to expose all this are those on the non-authoritarian left and the old traditional (methodist-ish) Labour left.

Whatever Jassy.

Stop derailing/goading.

You are being tiring. Not going to engage any further with you. You know what you are doing.

Hang on, Chomsky is a Holocaust denier? You couldn't make it up!

Pot kettle flumpernickel

TheMonkey I have to confess I am a bit lost on this thread so ignore me.

And I am also massively amused that someone tried to use Noam Chomsky as an example of holocaust denial!
It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad that people will pick on anything to prove a point, even if its completely inaccurate and in fact, laughable!

Wtf?

"Pot kettle flumpernickel"

????????

Lana
Smeaton didn't post the links to have a debate. What was their point of view? What did they think, not what did random articles selected out of publications think? I am sure we can all pull articles off the internet that support almost any point of view you care to think about but that isn't a debate is it?

Sorry just asking - which government equalised marriage rights?

Thanks, QuietC. you've summed it up in a nutshell. I was a Labour member for over 25 years, and consider myself part of the non-authoritarian left.

Actually Chaz she was trying to start a debate.
Those figures being representative of the answer to an earlier question about what the Tories had done.

The fact that nobody bothered to engage, or even read her post properly, sort of proved my point.

People on all sides use the interent to reiterate their points.

If it's from factual (or as close as!) sources, whats the problem?
It only becomes a problem when it's loads of opinion pieces from randomers on FB, or completely biased news sources.

Quiet - spot on - Corbyn and his travellers are really quite scary. They are not of the social democratic tradition. Much more stalinist in nature.

This is why so many other MPs cannot stand him. Despite all the polls - the word on the political websites I read those on the left see Corbyn as absolute poison on the doorstep.

Bertrand - just to be clear, you've reported me for suggesting Livingstone is a left-winger?

Right. Chomsky is a complicated character. Guffaw all you like, but a quick google - and even better an in-depth google, will lead you a whole host of his writings.

After watching Captain Fantastic I read quite a bit about him, not previously being familiar. His ideas are not those that I feel many people in this country would wish to follow.

Am going to do something else. The goading by Tories on MN is really wearing.

No she wasn't and you know it. If she was trying to start a debate she wouldn't have started with the name calling and then moved on to posting dozens of links with no commentary.

Both sides need to realise that the internet equivalent of shouting at people doesn't change people's minds. This was a thread about whether or not MN is left wing so which of those links informed that debate and how did Smeaton explain its relevance to the topic currently being debated? Here's a hint...she didn't

No, I have reported you for linking left wingers to holocaust denial.

quiet c

Spot on that's exactly why I left the Labour Party

In reality - what this country needs is for the labour party to lose this election. Split and a new party to form that avoids the hard left, anti-semitic, entryist etc tendencies and that offers a real opposition.

The greens aint it with their weird gender positions and plans to put VAT on airships.

Lib dems are a soiled brand.

Dan Jarvis - the tories were petrified of him. A genuine soldier and a social democrat - that is the kind of opposition that is needed. Not Corbyn

YABU, it's not left wing.

There are some very authoritarian threads. There are some very liberal threads. There are some right wing people, some left wing people.

There are occasionally some left wing posts (n.b. a post saying not everyone on benefits spends it all on fags and Sky TV isn't rabidly left wing). And there are occasionally some right wing posts ( n.b. a post worried about the rise in terrorist incidents isn't rabidly right wing either).

It's not predominantly left wing.

I would say that generally speaking Mumsnet is usually liberal rather than authoritarian in attitude. Perhaps this is what you mean OP. But left/right, liberal/authoritarian are different political axis. It's prossible to be right wing and liberal or left wing and authoritarian.

On the left/right axis, I would say mumsnet is quite centrist. There are some vocal left wingers and some vocal right wingers. This election, and for the last couple of years, I think there are more vocal right wing people than left. However, I do notice a lot of right wing people do tend to class anything not right wing as left wing, even though often the views are centrist.

Bertrand

No one reported you for denying Abbott was a racist?

Bertrand

cough

Left wing and holocaust denier?

Not sure if it's the right thread but this makes quite interesting reading. Plenty of Labour MPs didn't think Corbyn was the bees knees and Corbyn's crew clearly didn't think much of them.

labourlist.org/2016/03/leaked-list-ranks-labour-mps-by-hostility-to-corbyn/

In reality - what this country needs is for the labour party to lose this election. Split and a new party to form that avoids the hard left, anti-semitic, entryist etc tendencies and that offers a real opposition.

The greens aint it with their weird gender positions and plans to put VAT on airships.

Lib dems are a soiled brand.

I wish that wasn't all quite so persuasive.

The problem is the huge damage another five years of Tory rule will cause to public services. What if in 2020 we have a better Labour leadership, structure and culture but the NHS is past the point of no return?

How do you get past that? Because that's what it boils down to.

Gosh Bertrand, your poor report button must be quite worn out, the amount of times you like to announce you're using it!