To not understand how any parent could not vote for Labour, our kids need the NHS don't they?

[April2013]

I just don't get it, our children need the NHS, me and my children would probably all not be alive if it wasn't for the NHS, and if we had to pay for private I probably wouldn't even have children....and even if you have private healthcare we all need our police force. I just don't get it. How do people justify this to themselves?

Because we are realists. Anyone could promise to fix everything like some sort of amazing magic spell, but the reality isn't like that- money has to come from somewhere, it doesn't grow on trees- and picking random figures/targets/promises so (sorry- gullible) people believe and vote- would mean undoing all the good we have done, so many suffered for nothing- and we land back EXACTLY where we started.

Can someone please point me in the direction where conservatives have said they're getting rid of the NHS. seems to have been a pretty big news story that I've missed

Yes, sick of this scaremongering nonsense.... it's every bit as bad and misleading as the £350m per week for NHS once we've left the EU bus slogan.

I do think it's very important to remember that the UK and the US healthcare systems are two opposite - and extreme - ends of quite a long spectrum.

The US healthcare system is NOT the only alternative to the NHS. People's stubborn refusal to recognise this means that we can't have an informed discussion about the future provision of healthcare in this country, so our politicians are slowly suffocating the NHS instead.

How do you think Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, France, Germany, Spain, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, the Netherlands, Canada and Australia (not an exhaustive list) look after their citizens' health? They haven't got NHSs.

Sorry if I seem like I'm trying to guilt trip, I honestly feel like I don't understand and thought this would help me to understand. My view is the NHS should be separated from politics but it isn't so I'm going with the party who seem most focussed on supporting the NHS, I can't vote Conservative because so many health professionals have criticised what they are doing to the NHS and I trust them. I just hope whatever happens in 20, 30, 40, 50 years time it's still here and still going strong because I believe it is the best thing about the UK.

If you really want to know the answer to your question then you will have to put your prejudices aside. Tory voters do want the NHS to flourish because most of us dont have private insurance. The NHS has been in crisis for 68 20 years at least, its not a Conservative/Labour issue its an issue for the whole country. It needs complete reform not just money thrown into a black hole.

In all the shaking of the magic money tree Corbyns promises for the NHS are pretty much the same as the Tories. So for me it comes down to long term viability and I trust TM to keep fixing the economy rather than JC who just seems to be living in monopoly land.

I feel one of the major reasons the NHS are in difficulties is because of Gordon Browns disastrous PFI scheme which is now costing the NHS billions every year. I worry that if Corbyn is going to be spending and borrowing hundreds of billions the NHS will have to be spending ten of billions in debt repayments and will be even worse off in the long run.

The conservatives don't do what they say they will either though.

Everything has gone from bad to worse under the current lot. Up in the north A& Es are closing and the doctors have brought in triaging just to get regular GP appointments. While undoubtedly Labour is not perfect and I really wish they'd announced a general tax hike, I don't buy the Tories crap about there being no other options but cuts cuts and cuts which will certainly not help. Money needs money to breed. It's odd how Britain used to be able to afford so much more when it was apparently a poorer country isn't it.

It does seem odd that one group are offering to try to help, however imperfectly, but because it's not perfect people would rather take the group that never have. I'm with you there OP.

He's spending the budget about three times over in every sentence.

this is not true. Labour have put economic growth at the heart of the manifesto - as it should be.

The Tories haven't really bothered with that at all, choosing instead to strangle the economy with ideological austerity.

Economic growth....even a modest amount, will see greatly increased tax revenues. As will Labour plans to close loopholes and raise Corporate taxes to rates similar to other developed nations.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-naylor-report-everything-you-10543351

The Tory pledges have been shown to be very woolly, even when they bother to mention costings.

...the Naylor Report and the fact Theresa loves it is very very frightening 😞

I too know many healthcare professionals who believe that throwing money at the NHS will not 'save' it. It's a massive beast. It deals with things now never even dreamt about when it was first conceived.

I agree that the NHS should be taken out of the political football arena. I believe that instead of taking its funding from our big pool of income tax, we should all have an NHS tax payment taken directly from our pay packet and ring fenced. Then some new independent body should be put in charge. It should be totally reorganised from the top down.

No political party will do this because the NHS is sacred. No-one is brave enough to touch it.

I've not met a single person who doesn't support the NHS.
The Tories have never said they will privatise it.

Just because Teresa scares you isn't a good reason to vote for Jeremy. He scares me even more and I'll not vote for either of them.

April2013 - have you read the Naylor Report? Or an independent source on it?
Try Full Fact for a start fullfact.org/health/what-is-naylor-review/

I work for the NHS. I will not be voting for labour as they don't have a clue how to actually save the NHS (I don't think they're alone in that by the way) or a proper plan which will work.

I agree the NHS shouldn't even be part of politics.

It should be run like a large nationalised industry. It should start charging for some things.

I literally despair of the idiocy of believing the tories want to get rid of it. Why on earth would they? Because if you believe all conservative voters are rich and have private health care you must be quite ignorant.

Perhaps it's because you have never worked in the NHS op so it's you that doesn't understand.

I was a nursing sister for years and daily saw the waste of money and the amount of managers and external contractors payed eye watering amounts of cash to have endless meeting after endless meeting. This was under Blaire.

Its up to you who you vote for no one here cares really , but to keep on posting 'but I don't understand' and 'my family needs the NHS and 'tories are the baddies' is just stupid and pointless.

X post bruffian again

I must of missed the bit when May said she'll get rid of the NHS in the next 5 years then! This "save the NHS, vote Labour" message is odd, it's hardly like the Tories are saying we should give up on it and start looking for an alternative healthcare system.

But also, do you genuinely, truely think that if we end the current NHS model for health care delivery that there will be no access to healthcare in the UK for your DCs/DGC unless they are rich? France, Germany, Spain, Italy... they don't provide healthcare via an organisation like the NHS, yet their citizens aren't dying in the streets of treatable conditions.

There was a thread a bit ago about people who'd used other healthcare systems across Europe (not just those ill on holidays, but people who've lived in other EU countries and used their routine medical provision). Most were saying how well it worked, generally as well as or better than the UK system. It's perfectly possible to provide healthcare via a different system.

Tone down the dramatics.

I love full fact.
. I can't honestly see what's wrong with NHS selling off land they don't need?

We are expected to sell our houses to pay for care after all!

P...... F...... I......

Fucks sakes.
Could you not have asked this on one of the other eleventy billion 'labour- perfect, conservative-evil' threads?

"
I agree that the NHS should be taken out of the political football arena. I believe that instead of taking its funding from our big pool of income tax, we should all have an NHS tax payment taken directly from our pay packet and ring fenced. Then some new independent body should be put in charge. It should be totally reorganised from the top down. "
The last big nhs reform under lansley (the really popular one) did just that, stopped the secretary of state" meddling " in the NHS.
The funding model you describe is social insurance. There is no evidence that countries with this sort of health care funding do any better than we do.

Jo Cox was based near me and the fact she was Labour convinces me they are the safest bet, I'm sure Labour aren't perfect but what matters to me is they seem to genuinely believe in the importance of the NHS. I also think if the NHS is in such a 'mess' how come it helps so many people every day? We should all be a lot more positive about the good it does day in day out. I know it's not perfect and I've had my share of negative experiences but it is often brilliant. How did Cameron/Theresa not manage to get it so it is in a good position for the future already when most of their voters can't afford private? Why are so many doctors/nurses so upset about the changes to the NHS in recent years?

Labour started privatisation of NHS.
Labour introduced university tuition fees.
There have been so many changes in the NHS and education systems made by both parties with huge costs involved.

I am a parent and I don't think Labour will "save" the NHS.

The NHS needs reorganising, not just extra money thrown at it. We need to stop treating it like a sacred cow and see it fur what it is, a health service that isn't always above criticism.

I

Both parties have agreed on the fundamental direction for the NHS for a long time. They just don't like to, you know, actually agree