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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - Understanding Islam

388 replies

peggypatch99 · 05/06/2017 09:58

Hello All, first post (lurker of years and years).

I watched the concert last night, very emotional and tears shed, but afterwards I have felt myself become so angry, and I am not sure at what exactly, the world? Terrorists? The Government?

So I wanted to educate myself better and understand more about Islam in the west, how we are perceived and what life is like for Muslim's - I see posts on facebook and sometimes I agree but without knowing the ins and outs, which led me to trying to understand the muslim way of life and separate muslims from Islamic radicals - some people seem to put these in the same category despite the fact the IRA did not represent the Irish Catholic community as a whole.

However I looked at a Muslim forum, and to be honest I was shocked and upset at how we in Britain are perceived.

The forum (I appreciate not all Muslims will think in this manner) seeks to demonstrate how as women we must be completely submissive, if we are not men are allowed to strike us. There are conversations about how we are unclean unless we have undergone FGM, how in Britain we need to be taught that there is only one god, how homosexuality is wrong and people should be punished.

I wondered if perhaps Muslim ladies would share their thoughts on the forum, as this is giving me a distressing understanding of the religion, when I thought that Islam was a peaceful religion - but striking wives, withholding sex - or punishing and sleeping with other women, seems to be encouraged.

(This is advise given to a husband)
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

I am probably coming across as not very educated on the matter, and that is true, but would be interested in what Mumsnet think of this forum and whether forums like this are perhaps clouding our judgement of the religion as a whole.

I am Christian and can't say I visit Christian forums as there are always those who take scripture and amend the meaning for their own aim.

Here is the forum:
www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?158-Marriage

Thank you, please note I am not a troll, I am someone wanting to learn better and understand. I think part of the problem is that without being educated properly it leads to incorrect thoughts and feelings which are very raw post attacks.

OP posts:
LastGirlOnTheLeft · 05/06/2017 22:10

And because you obviously cannot read, I did not say Islam condones paedophilia. I said Muhammad was married to a nine year old little child. Which he was. So if you have a problem with that, take it up with Muhammad!

StatelessPrincess · 05/06/2017 22:15

HerOtherHalf And I thought the thread was going pretty nicely too!

It's absolutely incredible to me that people with extremely limited/inaccurate knowledge of Islam feel the need to tell actual practising muslims what they think our religion teaches us. Amazing.

MissionItsPossible · 05/06/2017 22:18

This thread has gone horrible thanks to certain people. Thanks to those that actually stayed on topic and were informative and helpful to the thread. Stateless I did have a question I wanted to ask but don't want it to appear bashing now.

MissionItsPossible · 05/06/2017 22:18

Oops just realised how that may have sounded. Don't want to ask it now because of the replies aimed at you, not because of you!!!

HerOtherHalf · 05/06/2017 22:19

It's a tired old argument. I've seen it many times before. Muhammed lived in the 6th and 7th centuries in the middle east. What might have been considered then as culturally acceptable in relation to marriage has no relevence today. If you want to argue that it does, consider that the age of consent was first defined in English law as 12. That was in the 13th century so I'm prepared to accept it was of its time. By your logic the indigenous English are all inherently accepting of child sexual abuse.

geekymommy · 05/06/2017 22:20

Do you go to Christian forums, OP? Not all Christians do, not all Jews go to Jewish forums, etc etc. And they certainly don't all go to one particular forum. An online forum for members of a religion may not be representative of all members of that religion.
Saying awful things online certainly isn't something that only Muslims do.

StatelessPrincess · 05/06/2017 22:24

MissionItsPossible Ask away, I dont mind

Fwiw there is credible evidence backed by both muslim and non muslim historians to suggest that Aishah consummated her marriage in her late teens.

HerOtherHalf · 05/06/2017 22:41

MissionItsPossible Ask away, I dont mind

Good for you. Your dignity is shining through in this thread. Don't let the haters get to you. They are just empty vessels doing what empty vessels do.

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 05/06/2017 22:42

This last lot of posts danced around the issue of Muhammad being a paedophile! Anyone care to answer that? Jesus lived a good few centuries before Muhammad but funnily enough, He didn't feel the need to wed a child! Along with other women.

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 05/06/2017 22:46

Stateless, that man still married her when she was a child, did he not?

I just find it abhorrent. And I find everyone that excuses it, abhorrent too!

MissionItsPossible · 05/06/2017 22:49

Good for you. Your dignity is shining through in this thread. Don't let the haters get to you. They are just empty vessels doing what empty vessels do.

Yes I agree with this. She has been informative and open in this thread. Unfortunately I am on my phone and have tried to respond to ask my question twice and both posts have been wiped by my butterfingers accidentally so if I remember my question tomorrow on my laptop I will post it without trouble !!

Chloe84 · 05/06/2017 22:52

Last Mary was married and had Jesus when she was 12. Why aren't you disgusted by that?

MissionItsPossible · 05/06/2017 22:52

LastGirl I can hazard a guess that you're not religious? I'm not either, for the record, but would never put down or make fun of anyone's religious beliefs. Funny though how someone that makes fun of another religion and call it to be bull will take the parts they perceive to be negative parts and hold them to be gospel. I don't know Islam or the Quaran so I don't know if that is true but if it is in there and you don't believe in it then why are you trying to holding people to account on it if you don't believe in it ?

SprinklesandIcecream · 05/06/2017 22:53

BillSykes

Read it. Don't see it Confused. Which part are you talking about?

SprinklesandIcecream · 05/06/2017 22:58

When people talk about Muhammad having married a nine year old (to which there's also contrary evidence. Some narrations put her almost at the age of 18/19), they forget his first wife was a 3 times widow, who was 15 years older than him. His first wife asked him to marry her because she admired his conduct and the honest way he had carried out his duties as an employee of hers.

StatelessPrincess · 05/06/2017 22:58

LastGirlOnTheLeft No I don't believe he did. Some people do believe it, some don't. I don't think anyone will ever get to the bottom of it so I choose to believe what seems most plausible and is correct in Islam. This article is quite interesting-www.irfi.org/articles/articles_151_200/ayesha_age_the_myth_of__a_prover.htm

HerOtherHalf thats a really nice thing to say, thank you Smile

geekymommy · 05/06/2017 22:59

Children got married in medieval Europe, too. One example is Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry VII. We know her marriage was consummated at age 12, because she was widowed and pregnant at age 13. Her husband was 24 when they married.

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 05/06/2017 23:02

Chloe, you obviously know nothing about Christianity to ask such a daft question!! Look up the Virginal Conception.👍

purpleviolet1 · 05/06/2017 23:06

Tapandgo- agree with you on the point re makeup. We aren't perfect though and we try our best!

As for the point on men ogling. It's not that all men ogle but some do, there's no denying that really..

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 05/06/2017 23:06

Mission, actually I am religious - I believe that Jesus is the ultimate revelation and Islam comes from Satan. If you believe in Jesus then Muhammad HAS to be false!

DixieFlatline · 05/06/2017 23:08

Muhammed lived in the 6th and 7th centuries in the middle east. What might have been considered then as culturally acceptable in relation to marriage has no relevence today.

The relevance in the context of talking about the Quran is dealt with in both mine and SuperBeagle's near identical posts. Both of which have been conveniently ignored.

Chloe84 · 05/06/2017 23:08

Last I didn't say Mary had sex at 12 🙄

But she was married at 12, which indicates girls did marry at that age then

And yes, there is evidence that Ayesha consummated her marriage at 19

Chloe84 · 05/06/2017 23:15

If you believe in Jesus then Muhammad HAS to be false!

And if you believe in Judaism, then Jesus has to be false.

Why so angry? Muslims believe in Jesus and Mohammed. Surely you should be happy that Jesus is revered by Muslims too?

HerOtherHalf · 05/06/2017 23:22

The relevance in the context of talking about the Quran is dealt with in both mine and SuperBeagle's near identical posts. Both of which have been conveniently ignored

Probably because your position conveniently ignores the reality that humans are capable of independent thought and are socially and culturally dynamic. They are not automatons running their chosen holy book like some kind of computer program with every single line interpreted literally.

DixieFlatline · 05/06/2017 23:29

Probably because your position conveniently ignores the reality that humans are capable of independent thought and are socially and culturally dynamic. They are not automatons running their chosen holy book like some kind of computer program with every single line interpreted literally.

The point was that Muslims who follow the Quran closely and literally have every justification for doing so, more so than fundamentalist Christians have for following the Old Testament. So while it might be pleasant to claim that fundamentalist Muslims are 'not real Muslims', it is patently bollocks.

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