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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask for a summary on the Tory v Labour stance on what to do about terrorism?

347 replies

Bearbehind · 04/06/2017 20:20

This is looking like being the most critical issue of our times at the moment despite my thoughts that Brexit was the crux of this election.

Can anyone cut through the waffle and tell us what the 2 main parties are offering to do about extremists and terrorism?

OP posts:
MaybeNextWeek · 06/06/2017 09:07

'it was a very gentle interview with a woman who wants to be Home Secretary. Maybe it was tedious because she didn't know her brief, the numbers, clearly had read the report and the interviewer had to point that out to her'

Yes political interview are rarely gripping, I do think that's why some have to have the 'live leaders TV debate!!' to keep their attention.

BertrandRussell · 06/06/2017 09:10

"That's really what it comes down to in the ned Two4one Voting Labour at the moment will make Diane Abbott, Home Secretary,"

No it won't. It will make Corbyn prime minister and Labour the party in power. No more, no less.

Charmageddon · 06/06/2017 09:18

It will make Corbyn prime minister and Labour the party in power. No more, no less.

And there lies the bigger problem for many - Corbyn as Prime Minister.

Crackednips · 06/06/2017 09:25

Actually Bert's right to point out that it'll be even worse. Did I mention Livingstone and McDonnell who along with Comrade Corbyn, also sucked up to the IRA whilst they were engaged in slaughter and torture?

CrossWordSalad · 06/06/2017 10:22

There seems to be three main stances from Labour supporters on these threads about how the Labour party divisions would play out in the (unlikely) event of a Labour victory.

One is that everyone will pull together and all the (180 was it?) MPs who voted no confidence in JC will be happy to work with him (mainly because they want the jobs).

Two is that Jeremy is a man of principle and so will carry on with DA, McDonnell and his left wing allies in the cabinet.

Three, which would have the same effect as two, is that the MPs are people of principle and will refuse to join Jeremy's cabinet.

It almost makes me wonder whether it would have been better to gave an open discussion about this when the election was called, rather than going for the selective amnesia/denial approach to the Labour party's divisions which we have seen from the party, and much of the media.

waitforitfdear · 06/06/2017 10:53

Labour will implode on Friday and hopefully a sensible credible leader can rebuild the party.

If not the sensible ones will form a new party. It's risky but would be the only way to make Labour the once great party it was before momentum infiltrated.

makeourfuture · 06/06/2017 10:57

I know...let's have a general election on thursday......

You seem to misunderstand me. May and Rudd should resign.

They have failed at their first and primary obligation, keeping the public safe.

bruffian · 06/06/2017 11:01

My worst fear is that the Tories will win with a majority a bit smaller than last time and everyone else will get roughly the same amount of seats as now.

So basically nothing will change. Corbyn will stay.

Mind you, I don't really care about Labour now. I used to. I used to hope Corbyn would go and we'd have Cooper or Starmer. I don't care any more as I think I'll probalby vote Lib Dem from now on. Labour have lost me for the foreseeable future.

Charmageddon · 06/06/2017 11:10

After this election I'm Lib Dem all the way bruffian.

Am voting blue this time because the prospect of Labour under JC terrifies me, and Tories are Brexit, but Lib Dem definitely represent me far more than the rest at the mo.

Crackednips · 06/06/2017 11:12

waitforitfdear I agree with you but sadly though I can't see who this new and credible Labour leader could possibly be? I feel the entire political caste has failed and needs replacing.

TheHoneyBadger · 06/06/2017 11:17

it's car crash stuff really.

if you liberate yourself from the position of tribally voting for who you always voted for and you are pro brexit and take terrorism seriously you just cannot vote labour as far as i can see.

if you are also not a fan of slashing public services to the ground what is left?

i find it really bloody strange and alarming that that leaves me, on rational grounds, with the manifesto that most 'fits' being that of ukip.

how the hell did that happen?

Killdora · 06/06/2017 11:24

No idea TheHoneyBadger

I've looked at brexit and terrorism and switched from Tory/ukip to labour.

waitforitfdear · 06/06/2017 11:25

I know I know cracked

and I also sgree with you charm that's what I am going to do.

make lets debate on Friday see what the voters have decided to trust shall we?

makeourfuture · 06/06/2017 11:28

make lets debate on Friday see what the voters have decided to trust shall we?

Certainly. Resignation, however, still would be the honourable thing.

Crackednips · 06/06/2017 11:29

I know, its staggering and utterly tragic to think that had Corbyn /Labour taken a strong and consistent stand against MUI , even called for a complete Moratorium on all new immigration for five years, the rest of his/its programme would probably sweep the board. Labour would get all those who've turned to UKIP and the Tories, the disgruntled Tory voters and so many undecideds as well IMO ( but then if he/it had done that, the election would never have been called ).

bruffian · 06/06/2017 11:29

resignation, after a snap GE and with Brexit negotations needing to be done?

fuck off, what a stupid idea.

Charmageddon · 06/06/2017 11:36

My ideal outcome would be TM getting in & eating massive slice of humble pie.

Emergency budget & a massive u-turn on austerity; announce a cross party complete review of counter-terrorism policy.

I know I'll be disappointed though...!

bruffian · 06/06/2017 11:40

yes that would be good charm

CleopatraTheCatLover · 06/06/2017 11:41

May treated the police with contempt when she was home secretary, and all the cuts to the police is anything but 'strong and stable'. My vote is with Labour.

waitforitfdear · 06/06/2017 11:44

Mmm Dianne should resign today

cleopatra Dianne wanted to abolish MI5 love so good luck with the bobby on the beat to protect you. Hmm

charm perfect outcome

TheHoneyBadger · 06/06/2017 12:10

that does sound great charm

there is no way on earth that labour will win - it has never been likely at all imo.

JC and his manifesto would have cruised it in a safer era but there is just no way he could be elected in the here and now.

TheHoneyBadger · 06/06/2017 12:14

i can't conceive how anyone can vote for people for opposed stopping syrian fighters returning to the uk. how can you possibly elect people who were more concerned about the rights of people who'd been off beheading people than national security?

Crackednips · 06/06/2017 12:19

JC and his manifesto would have cruised it in a safer era

But Corbyn's a socialist and given his past support for anti Britain/Anti Western terrorist organisations. I seriously doubt that he as leader would ever have been acceptable to the electorate.

TheHoneyBadger · 06/06/2017 12:32

i don't know about that in a different era. certainly in a time where your basic values and way of life is under attack you are unlikely to want someone in charge who you're uncertain even supports those values and that way of life.

whether we'd have noticed, been disturbed, so much by his 'difference' in another era i don't know.

sleeponeday · 06/06/2017 12:38

Theresa May has suppressed a report the government commissioned on where extremist funding is coming from. It's widely believed that this is because it traces it back to Saudi, and we have huge arms sales contracts with them. I do think money is key - people are being radicalised in new Mosques, which are believed to be traceable to Saudi money.

She's said that "enough is enough" and things must change, which is a bit odd, given she has been Home Secretary and Prime Minister for 7 years. The police warned her all this would happen if she continued to cut, but she's made no indication that she recognises this and will reverse the cuts to police numbers. Effectively, that means we are operating blind because we can't afford proper surveillance, proper infiltration, or even proper community policing. We currently have troops on the streets because we don't have enough armed officers anymore.

She is right that the internet is an absolutely toxic arena for all sorts of extremist ideologies, and that we have no sway on it at all. But the problem is kind of in the last sentence. We aren't in any sort of a position to control an international, intangible medium. If Russia, China and the USA can't do it, how the hell does she imagine she can? And while it's a huge tool of propaganda and recruitment, if they are moved from one page or site they will simply start new ones. It's playing Whack-a-Mole, because we have no control over what the propaganda producers are doing unless they are domestic. Most aren't. Attacking the internet is attacking a nebulous target - but a helpfully cost-free one, and also not one she can be blamed over for cuts.

Both parties, in leaving the EU, are worryingly opening us up to a dilution in intelligence. Fortunately our relationship with the US will remain as that's an important one - but Trump scares me on that front and there is nothing either party can do there.

Corbyn was committed in the manifesto, before the latest attacks, to a huge increase in police numbers, so they can infiltrate and conduct surveillance, plus better community policing so they know what is happening on the ground at an earlier stage and can hopefully prevent radicalisation. A key risk factor in radicalisation is a criminal past, and people are often radicalised in jail, so it's also important to offer better education and to reduce poverty and disengagement with society generally. Austerity does not achieve that.

He has also openly talked about the need to have difficult conversations with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, as there is a huge amount of money going into extremist Islamic propaganda in this country and a lot can, it is believed, be traced back to Saudi and the Wahhabist Islam they espouse.

He believes that shoot to kill should be available, but a focus on it is to miss the main point which is that we need to seek to prevent terrorists ever being on the streets in the midst of an attack. Cutting off funding, dissuading radicalisation, strengthening the police and talking with people who wish us harm, as we ended up (successfully) doing with the IRA, UDA, etc is also a suggestion, though I am doubtful because in Ireland there were concrete aims: ISIS have no concrete aims, other than world domination, so how can we negotiate at all? We can't. Nonetheless, the dialling down on rhetoric is likely in itself to prevent some young people finding out more and being corrupted. Posturing for political effect recruits for both side's positions, unfortunately. It's also the case that failing to recognise the Saudi money creating new, radical Mosques, and discriminating between that strand of extremism and mainstream Islam in this country is problematic because you then make more young people alienated, and likelier to be radicalised. ISIS have killed thousands of times more Muslims in the Middle East than Europeans over here, and so there's a genuine common ground in seeking to defeat them.

Having said all of that, I think it's safe to say that terrorism is not likely to be defeated by any domestic policies. It hasn't been, anywhere. All we can do is reduce incidence.