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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Men in changing rooms

495 replies

TheWernethWife · 04/06/2017 11:24

Went shopping yesterday, popped into a well known women's shop and there was a man in the changing room. When I asked why he was there the assistant looked at me like I had three heads and said he was probably helping his wife and most people wouldn't be bothered. Well I was bloody bothered.

OP posts:
IntheBenefitTrap · 05/06/2017 20:47

You're not being a pita Smile That's fine - I shouldn't have presumed. I will be more clear in future posts.

The amount of people that don't gaf or who are just plain awful is both understandable in one way (why should they be nice, it's not them and they don't know me) and shocking in another way (I didn't choose this and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy), but that's life, I guess!

PunkrockerGirl · 05/06/2017 20:54

You missed an important word out there, Benefit
It's women's changing rooms, not 'changing room'.
That's what this whole debate has been about. You haven't been able to engage without the use of foul language (and then denied it which lost you all credibility). It's clear that even now you continue to spectacularly miss the point.

IntheBenefitTrap · 05/06/2017 20:56

We all know it's about a women's changing room - why would I need to specify?

Where on earth have I denied calling someone a cunt trumpet? I've fully posted about it on a few occasions.

Good job I wasn't seeking your credibility then Smile

barrygetamoveonplease · 05/06/2017 20:59

I can't read the full thread, life's too short. Someone direct me to the photos of men in changing rooms, whipping off their shirts to reveal their tanned and oiled torsos...
That is what the thread's about, right? Otherwise I might have to report you to the thread-title police for disappointing a member of the MN community.

Gwenhwyfar · 05/06/2017 21:01

"if someone caught a flash of a bra or knickers, they're not seeing any more than they would on the beach"

It's completely different. If someone's wearing a bikini on the beach it's their choice to expose their body, if someone's being seen in a changing room, it's not their choice.
I really don't want men seeing my hairy legs and unpresentable underwear through the crack of the curtain.

PunkrockerGirl · 05/06/2017 21:38

You only admitted it after you knew that posters had seen what you'd written before it was deleted Grin

IntheBenefitTrap · 05/06/2017 21:54

Not at all. I posted it for all to see - how was I to know it would be deleted? It wasn't deleted by me. If I say something, I admit to it. I never once denied it - why would I? I posted it 😂 It seems that you're just trying to antagonise me, which is a little bizarre.

IntheBenefitTrap · 05/06/2017 21:55

I also notice her vile post has been deleted. It was a lot worse than calling someone a glorified queef.

Boiing · 05/06/2017 22:21

Bit of a tangent but where have all the single sex showers at swimming gone? Moved to a new area a few years ago and here all the pools have a shared shower area, where women and men are all in same shower basically. And so I can't take my suit off to get clean. Doesn't matter quite as much for blokes as the area covered is smaller but I want to properly wash my chest and tummy and bits! Is this everywhere or is my county weird? (Where I lived before it was pretty simple: womens room had a female shower where you could wash naked and presumably men had the same.)

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 05/06/2017 22:59

Boiing The swimming pools round here have separate changing so I'm not sure why yours don't.

Still, I didn't think anyone actually had a "proper" shower after a swim Confused I've always just had a cursory one in my costume and then a proper one at home.

mirime · 05/06/2017 23:28

Boiing ones I've seen are communal changing rooms with lockable shower cubicles.

Louiselouie0890 · 06/06/2017 00:25

If it's a woman's changing room then no man should be allowed in. It's a woman's area no woman should have to feel uncomfortable about a man being present when in an area specifically for women. Wonder if he would have gone into a women's toilet without a second thought? If it's a changing room as in unisex then I see it as my choice as I'm well aware that it's unisex and it would be my decision to use it or not I would know what I was getting into so to say that being said if they are unisex they shouldn't be the curtain kind I would definitely not use a unisex changing room with curtains for doors.

DameDeDoubtance · 06/06/2017 06:37

It's about consent, women in women's changing rooms have not consented to share it with men. It doesn't matter how many cool girls don't care or how many women like their lovely hubby to help them shop, other women have not consented.

PunkrockerGirl · 06/06/2017 08:43

Benefit
Yesterday at 18.49 "I didn't call anyone a cunt actually"
So saying you never once denied it isn't quite true, is it?

It's hard to retain credibility when it's there in black and white for everyone to read.

IntheBenefitTrap · 06/06/2017 09:15

Are you seriously that stupid? Can you not read at all?

I didnt call anyone a cunt.

I called them a cunt-trumpet.

As previously stated, a fanny fart is very, very different to a vagina.

I suggest that you read back over my posts, where I state that I didn't call someone a cunt because I DIDN'T. Then, what I do do, is post what I ACTUALLY called them.

If you would like some reading lessons, I can suggest some excellent adult tutors.

C8H10N4O2 · 06/06/2017 09:39

I've just reread your posts - this was an early contribution.

"I'll change my choice of store[if men are allowed in womens changing rooms] - how utterly pathetic.

I'm disabled and my husband is my carer. He comes in to help me change because I can't do it alone. I don't want a random assistant seeing certain parts of me. I don't care what anyone else thinks tbh.

You made it clear that your preference for your carer rather than a woman from the store was more important that the preference of other women not have 'certain parts' seen by a strange man. You said nothing about asking first and taking care to respect other women's privacy.

I also sometimes need help. It wouldn't occur to me to swan in with DH and tell other women they were pathetic for wanting their privacy respected.

PunkrockerGirl · 06/06/2017 09:49

You're sounding slightly extremely deranged now.
I suggest you read back over your posts and see how increasingly ridiculous you sound. You can't engage in serious debate without resorting to foul mouthed playground style insults - and I'm the one that's stupid and needs reading lessons Grin
I'm not engaging with you anymore, I've far better things to do with my time. So you can go and hurl your childish insults at someone else, because rest assured I won't be reading or responding to any more of your rantings.

IntheBenefitTrap · 06/06/2017 09:56

That's fair enough, CH - admittedly that was not a nice thing to say and didn't imply that we always ask first, which we do. There's no swanning from us (pretty difficult to swan in a wheelchair /on crutches Smile). It makes me cross that we get constant abuse because I cared to get ill, makes me a bit bitter, but you're right, that's no way to react.

However, I stand by the fact that the woman who was vile is a cunt-trumpet Wink

As for the other poster who, for some reason has taken it upon themselves to try and antagonise, that's a very sad thing to do. Hopefully whatever is making them so bitter will be able to be resolved.

IntheBenefitTrap · 06/06/2017 09:57

Dared, not cared!

Datun · 06/06/2017 10:50

I'm sure it's very difficult for people who are disabled to try on clothes. And I'm equally sure that their other half is probably the person who is in the best position to help.

Most people confronted with that situation would accept it with compassion and understanding.

It doesn't mean that female only spaces should be automatically accessible to men.

Female spaces is a hot button topic at the moment.

Women should not have to justify why they are uncomfortable being naked or semi naked in the presence of strange men. With often an ill fitting curtain between them.

Whether the man is nice, nasty, a sex offender, or a loving husband is irrelevant. What a man feels, thinks or wants in this situation is immaterial.

It's not women's job to have to assess whether the presence of a man is ok or not.

Who knows if he is a perv or a genuinely nice chap? Who cares?

Trying on clothes is a fairly specific activity. Apart from the issue of nakedness, there is the issue of seeing if something fits, or suits. Trying it on with a shoe, or seeing it from all angles, or in another mirror in the communal part. It's personal. It's a personal activity.

If you want approval from a partner, go outside and present him with the finished product. But don't subject other women to his gaze.

AskBasil · 06/06/2017 12:29

user1492958275, why is it utterly unsurprising that instead of formulating even a half-arsed cogent argument as to why women who point out that it's a rum do to tell other women it's stupid to worry about male abuse, while at the same time telling us you worry about your DS's feelz, you run off calling people who disagree with you stupid, without actually explaining why your concern about your DS's feelz is more valid than other women's concern about their privacy?

I suppose that's the nature of MN nowadays.

I have some sympathy with Morphene's argument, that we should all just get over ourselves and be naked as nature intended, wherever we go and throw out all that uptight victorian stuff.

However. The problem with that attractive prospect, is that unfortunately Morphene, there are still far too many men around, who do not see women as real human beings, but as fuck objects. So when they see our naked bodies, because of the "othering" they have done on the idea of a woman, they don't just get over themselves, they have learned to sexualise those naked bodies and make judgements about them.

In addition, men are still raping women at the rate of 1 in 4 of us and using images and film of women being sexually tortured while naked, to bring them to orgasm.

If that weren't the case, then we could all just get changed together, swim together, be naked together, without being uptight or uncomfortable or self-conscious. Because men wouldn't have othered us, they wouldn't go home and jack off to naked imaged of us being humiliated, they wouldn't cat-call us, or sit with their friends and make vile comments about women's bodies, faces, etc. in order to bond with other men over how inferior women are; there would be no hinterland of cultural vileness towards women and we could all get over ourselves and run naked round the changing rooms together.

In the absence of that, women are absolutely justified in wanting privacy from men.

And that includes in public areas. By telling other women that we have no right to some privacy from men in public (like loos, changing rooms etc.) and if we want it, we should stay at home, you are basically telling women that if we're not happy to comply with men's control of public space, with all the cultural shit about women that they bring to public space, then we should just stay back in the kitchen.

Very cool girl I'm sure and there's an awful lot of misogynists who will applaud you for those sentiments. But for Christ's sake woman, think for a moment, about what you are saying. Just think.

Datun · 06/06/2017 13:12

Exactly basil.

Women don't have a problem with other women in their spaces. So being naked, exposed or vulnerabe isn't a problem in itself. It only becomes a problem because (some) men exploit it.

Once women are confident that their vulnerability will not be taken advantage of, they will open the doors.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 06/06/2017 14:19

Agree, Basil and Datun.

Thing is, not being prudish isn't a magic shield against being distressed by being perved on. It just doesn't work like that.

So being told 'you must be a prude because otherwise you wouldn't care' is a bit annoying.

How far does it go anyway? I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that men masturbate. It doesn't gross me out. But seeing a bloke doing it at the bus stop definitely did.
Does that mean I am and anyone else who feels like that is a prude?

Nickynackynoodle · 06/06/2017 14:30

AskBasil outstanding post.

AnyFucker · 06/06/2017 15:23

Basil I thoroughly enjoyed that masterclass you just gave on how to wipe the floor with a hard of thinking cool girl