When I hear "we won't let them win" I now think, Hallo! They are winning!

[bruffian]

How the hell can we stop this?

They're not winning though. They haven't achieved their ultimate aims even in Middle East.

Tell that to the families of the innocent people they slaughter on our streets.

There is a fifth column inside this country. Not in the Middle East but here, living amongst us who hate us and want to destroy our way of life. Until the liberals wake up to the reality of that and we can intern, deport .. do whatever is necessary to protect our own citizens here in our own country, then this is going to continue.

Instead we get apologism and appeasement and prayers and platitudes every time, until the next time.

Well said, LadyBitterSparkles

Of course they haven't 'won' and I find those who would like to hand 'victory' to them on a plate incredibly unpatriotic and frankly wet.

The only impact the IRA had on me personally was that I had to carry my rubbish round with me in central London because the authorities got rid of the bins. And thanks to Islamic terrorism, I now have to buy expensive bottles of water on planes or at the airport instead of taking my own, and any toiletries packed have to be mini-sized. Oh, and I sometimes have to take my shoes off at the airport.

I hardly feel that justifies saying that my whole way of life has changed and 'they' have 'won'. Of course the attacks have been tragic for the families and individuals personally involved. But for the vast, vast, vast majority, terrorism - whether by Islamic extremists, the IRA or anyone else - has had a negligible effect on our everyday lives.

This is really quite hysterical though isn't it? They're not striking everywhere or killing hundreds.

Well they are, unless of course you're only counting the UK and not the Muslim countries where people are being slaughtered in far larger numbers.

They aren't winning. One of their reasons their attacks have stepped up is because they are losing their battles, running out of converts and they are desperately trying to get to the next stage (isolating Muslims from society, enabling recruiters to expand).

This thread has been very interesting! If you think discussing ideas and feelings is 'letting them win' then surely YOU are letting them win by decrying free speech?

Fgs. Well done, even other people disagreeing with you means "they have won" then you are totally blinkered. Retreat to your bunker and let the rest of us carry on then.

I don't understand why our terror alert was put down a level.
Am feeling so sad and angry about it all.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Please elaborate.

There are and will always be people who kill, people who kill lots of people. My point is that you are more likely to be killed if you encounter a killer not because you have gone to a club.

We lost the second the 'war on terror' was declared.

I'm not going to debate fracking except to say the environmental agencies don't have a problem with it per se. Also there has been fracking in the UK for decades already. It's become a science v anti science polarised issue.

The UK needs to be more savvy in both food security and energy security.

Ah yes, "the liberals", those damn pesky people who won't just panic and hate others instantly upon demand. Goddamned pussies!

From my personal point of view they are not winning. Tonight I will go to work for the emergency services, on a car, on my own. I am not terrified, I am not scared or apprehensive either, I will exercise my usual caution but that is no different to any other shift.
I work in a place that has some known targets for terrorist attacks but I will continue to treat everyone regardless of their gender, race or creed.
For them to win I would need to change my fundamental ethos and I'm not doing that for any bugger! It really is business as usual for me and my colleagues.
FWIW my DH will be going into London on Monday, through busy stations, tubes and walking across various London bridges as he does every other day. He is not scared either.

happypoobum - agree - I am suspicious of this too. This whole thread title is doing ISIS's job for them far more effectively than the attacks themselves.

One of the most revolting aspects of last night's attacks was the number of far-right posts on Twitter as soon as the news of the attacks came out, nearly all from obviously racist agitators in the US, seeking to exploit the deaths of innocent people in the UK for their pre-existing agenda.

Really disgusting.

Totally agree with justanothernameonthepage

A surefire way to make things escalate is to stir up inter racial hatred.

i can't be the only person who found the don't look back in anger approach Manchester took to be genuinely heartwarming - we need to unite as British people and come up with solutions that most people can agree are fair and reasonable and that don't penalize anyone other than those committing terrorist acts.

It's not 'wet' to be scared.
What has happened in our country in 2017 is utterly horrific.

Brexit we've been spoiled over the last 20 or 30 years.
As I was born in 1960 the war was still very real to many people and still talked about on a daily basis. People forget very quickly.
Funny enough I can't really remember the IRA campaign, even though I lived in a big city, other than bomb alert drills being common at school, and having to look out for unattended packages. Using public transport was probably scariest for most people, but oublic transport is essential for many commuters, so yes they did have to get on with it.

"Today 09:43 MssGameandWatch

This is really quite hysterical though isn't it? They're not striking everywhere or killing hundreds.

Well they are, unless of course you're only counting the UK and not the Muslim countries where people are being slaughtered in far larger numbers."

Which of course I am, as we are discussing terror attacks in the UK

They are definitely not winning in the UK. Winning is influencing majority to follow their fucked up way of thinking. We lost many good people the past 10 weeks; if anything, it makes the rest of us hate them even more. I am not changing the way I live for them, I'll still be going to concerts, London, and if it happens to me, it happens to me. I hope I will fight back as much as I can before I am taken away from this earth.

They are not winning. This is not a game that can be won or lost.

The truth is it is very easy to hurt people and to create fear.

As much as I am saddened by these events I always like to think that it shows the strength of society that people do not commit these type of acts more often.

If one person with a car/knife/weapon can cause so much devastation I find it helpful to realise how our social cohesion generally makes such events rare and horrifying.

A couple of hundred of years ago the world was a much much worse place to live in for the majority of the population world.

Do not let people convince you that the world is sliding into some kind of abyss. Life is better than ever for most of the worlds inhabitants.

Stay positive!

I think there is some straw-manning going on though. People saying that there needs to be a more effective government response to Islamist terrorism, Islamist radicalisation and the spread of radical Islamism are frequently attacked and told that they are

spreading hatred
blaming all Muslims
wanting the rule of law ignored

Has anyone being watching the New series of house of cards? With islamic terrorist attacks in run up to election its scarily likefiction is becoming fact.

Nolottery very good point. Daesh must hate it when they see Muslims and non Muslims standing together.

Sorry, that posted too soon

wanting people who are not involved penalized
etc etc

when they are not saying these things at all. To suggest that we can't identify and tackle radical Islamism without promoting division is, in my view, a very odd view. I imagine most Muslims are as keen as anyone else to see Islamist extremism dealt with.

I think people need to start arguing on the basis of what people are actually saying, rather than ascribing views and aims to them which they don't hold.

This is really quite hysterical though isn't it? They're not striking everywhere or killing hundreds.

That was not specified in the OP.

Anyone who thinks 'they' have won, has a loser mentality that does not know the meaning of the words win and loose.