Staunch Tory wavering

[FuckyDuck]

So as title says, I have always been a staunch Tory supporter and I also voted leave in the EU referendum. I genuinely have the utmost faith in TM to deliver brexit to the best of her ability

BUT

the NHS & education...

JC is someone I could never respect but labours approach to the NHS and education seems to be far far better. However I simply cannot abide any of their social policies (my view on this is that EVERYONE who is physically and mentally capable of working, should, no one gets a free ride unless disabled/caring for someone who is)

Now I don't want Tory flaming but I need to decide whether the Tory economical and social policies outweigh Labours NHS plans and education policies. Can anyone help?

we have plenty of money as a country - it's just a case of thinking about how we spend it. We haven't all of a sudden become a third world nation.

I expect someone will say we have spent it all on debt - no, we haven't spent it all on debt. Public spending has gone down yet our debt has increased.

Can anyone explain that to me please?

Citroen it's well documented that increasing taxes decreases overall taxation. It also decreases ambition, motivation, aspiration and increases dependency

How does increased tax increase dependency?

Bollocks

People who vote Tory must lack both empathy and imagination. They both don't care that people with disabilities are killing themselves rather than live the way the Tories are forcing them to, and they can't imagine that will ever happen to them or someone they actually DO care about.

But guess what? No one PLANS to be disabled, and yet it happens to millions of people every year, and it COULD HAPPEN TO YOU.

If you wouldn't want to have a life long disability or care for someone who does under a Tory government, then don't vote for one.

People who vote Tory must lack both empathy and imagination.

And then along comes a post that takes a wavering Tory voter and returns them to a solid Tory voter.

One way of thinking about is that, relatively speaking, Brexit is an unknown. It's a new chapter that the UK is about to enter into.

What is known is that children need to be taught by teachers, people need doctors, nurses and other hcps, people need health and social care, specialist services eg LD, housing, employment that pays a living wage. As an absolute minimum.

Countries that have invested in these things have a healthier economy than the UK after 7 years of austerity.

At the moment, which party looks to be the most able to create and find that? (Clue it's the one with the properly costed manifesto).

I don't see it the same as you op.

I work in children's services. I also have family members with severe disabilities. The Tory benefit cuts haven't stopped lazy layabouts, they've simply made life a lot harder for the most vulnerable and those who need a helping hand. Which only puts more pressure on other services.

Sadly when we live in a civilised society with good public services, we will always have a few who will try to abuse those services. You could apply that to anything not just benefits.

The people I know who play the system haven't suddenly got up and changed their lives thanks to the Tories.

Policies like the bedroom tax are idealogical and don't work in theory because, for example, there isn't enough smaller properties to just downsize.

Our neighbours opposite have a very severely disabled little boy. The dad works full time but on nmw, the mum stays at home because of the child, they've got a tiny third bedroom but come under the so called 'benefit tax' rules. They use the small room to store a lot of medical equipment. They're basically being punished for being poor and having a disabled child.

I'll be voting Labour, Theresa May won't be personally negotiating the brexit arrangements and neither would Jeremy Corbyn. Afaik the Tories are sending Boris.

I've done my own uturn this election.

Lifelong Tory voter, even argued on here partially in favour of ukip.

I couldn't believe it when the leaders live debate completely changed my mind.

The debate last night change my dh, in laws and parents minds.

I couldn't defend any of the Tory cuts, stranglation of funds to public services, calling an election at an unstable time, or May reckoning she was strong enough to take on the EU, but couldn't even face one man.

I believed everything I'd read and seen of Corbyn previously, and I will hands down admit how bloody wrong I was.

The more people that see him, unedited and live, the better imo.

FuckyDuck
Ok, I have a daughter who will not be starting school for 4.5 years. I actually really really like the return of grammar schools

I know its been said but your DD may have send, or she may loose her place to someone that pays for a tutor or someone who just pays the school.

You had also better hope that that there are enough teachers left for every grammar school.

For years we've waited for a politician who's honest, principled and genuinely cares. Now we don't want him, why not? Because his face doesn't fit?

I believe he's ahead of his time.

People who vote Tory must lack both empathy and imagination.

What a ridiculous statement.

increasing taxes decreases ambition etc...utter nonsense in my view too. Sheer incompetence in policy making and growth-driven economies does it for me re the Tories (though certainly not true of every Tory in the past). They created the Brexit mess, May is all over the place, backtracking on manifesto pledges just hours after launching, doing peculiar photo ops to hide away from voters. In terms of a strong negotiator, completely blown it. Corbyn has been a surprise to himself and party. That's what we need.

piglet the IFS also said that in terms of their social care plan, the Tories essentially had no plan...they weren't addressing the structural issues. You are implying that they are only criticising Labour costings. Not true.

You are implying that they are only criticising Labour costings. Not true.

No I wasn't the poster said the Labour Manifesto was costed to the penny. I was pointing out it wasn't. No mention of the Tories whatever

What qualifies Jeremy Corbin to be PM:

I) taking hard decisions - JC has never had a proper job outside of being a MP. He has never held a ministerial position. In fact he has had no responsibility in government and has been appalling at even holding the tories to account. So this is the man we want to handle Brexit talks and deal with the terror threat. The hardest thing JC has to decide is what jam to make and then which terrorist organisation to invite to tea to help him eat it.

2. Principled man - he divorced his second wife after he disagreed with her about sending their son to a state grammar school but happily overlooks the fact that Diane Abbot sent her child to a selective fee paying school and offers her the job of shadow Home Secretary as well

3. A trusted loyal labour politician - JC has voted against his own party 428 times. He is mistrusted and disliked by experienced labour MPs many of whom resigned from his shadow cabinet rather than serve under him

I dont really get these "political conversions", going from staunch Tory to Labour (or vice versa), seems a bit extreme. Why was voting Tory ok before?
There seem to be loads anecdotes around at the moment of staunch, often elderly Tories, who voted for Thatcher, Major, etc, listening to Corbyn on the telly and having a political epiphany.

ChampagneSocialist1

Stop the presses.

Corbin found to be a politician shocker.

He is mistrusted and disliked by experienced labour MPs many of whom resigned from his shadow cabinet rather than serve under him

So many MPs disliking him can only be a plus in my book.

bertsdinner I can only really talk for myself here, but I will be honest about why.

My unofficial adopted parents were Tory, I was raised thinking Labour was the anti rich party.

I'll be quite frank and say I didn't really look in to it much more. I've done well for myself and just kept voting Tory because they were 'my' party and I didn't trust labour (though looking back if you'd asked me why it would probably have been based on second hand gossip and the media)

During this election every clip, everything I read, confirmed that Corbyn was a joke, not a sensible policy in sight and a weak man.

Everything confirmed it until I saw the first live debate.

I couldn't believe it, I believed every word he said, he didn't look weak at all. He looked like someone who believed in democracy, compromise and actually discussing things like a grown up.

Very refreshing after the slang match, circus ring politicians I'm used to.

In contrast May looked weak, bumbling and shifty as per your usual politician.

Inspired by this I actually read Labours manifesto. It was fully costed, I'd taken for granted that the Tory's wasn't because I believed, for no particular reason, that they were the best with the money.

I realised that when I actually stopped being so biased, and read the manifestos again, and weighed up what they were telling me, that I agreed with corbyn.

(Corbyn - his policies and what he wants vs May - telling me what Corbin wants and why it's a bad thing but nothing big sound bites about what she wants)

Obviously we all think differently and not all will agree, but that is how I came to switch so rapidly.

(The second debate saw Dh and my in laws switch. Corbyn should never stop broadcasting )

bertsdinner methinks its Momentum luvvies mass attacking social media to make undecided people think even Tory voters now think it's ok to vote Labour because JC is now suddenly competent because he's now had some coaching on interviewing and debating techniques.

labour campaign boosted by fake twitter accounts

YABVVU Jeremy Corbyn managed to completely fuck up a Woman's Hour interview. We'll all be totally screwed if he's handling the Brexit negotiations.

The thought of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary and in charge of MI5 is completely laughable too.

As Champagnesocialist1 pointed out, most of Corbyn's cabinet have resigned as they can't work with him.

I think that the real Corbyn is the slimy lying weasel who got publicly caught out walking past empty seats on a train, and posting pictures on social media of himself sitting on the floor to try to pretend that our national rail service is a shambles. If he did become Prime Minister, you'll find he's not the genuine honest man that Labour voters seem to believe him to be.

I vote with my conscious. I can do that because being poor I don't have to worry about material things, I don't have much to lose. I don't have to worry about inheritance, I dot have anything worth leaving. My prospects won't change whoever is in because i will always have to worry if my benefits will stop. (Disabled). The only certainty is i will die poor. So I vote with my conscious for my children, their children and all those that may be worse off than me. I vote with consideration for young and old alike. I vote for a country that cares about all of its people. I can do that because I don't consider what's just best for me. Try it, it can be so much more liberating and less fraught.

I vote with my 2 disabled children in mind, therefore I will vote Labour.

Isn't it interesting that all the nasty, vicious attacks are anti-Corbyn.

I truly believe he's a normal, down to earth person. The more I've researched and seen, and heard him speak, the more I trust him and his motives.

Yes, I am biased because I could never vote for the nasty party. I voted Libdems last election, this time Labour have a leader I can follow.

Cleopatra

yes I have two disabled children too, who I hope everyone will think of when they vote.