Quick poll - Is this the right level of punishment?

[ChickenAndSpinachBalti]

Help MN jury. DS (nearly 9yo) took something of mine. Without asking. So he stole.

Just a cheapo, silver (ish) chain which was broken and in the kitchen-drawer-of-crap. Think it was there with a vague thought I may try and fix at some time. Been there for a while years probably. If he had asked I would have given it to him without a thought.

He was borrowing (and had asked nicely) some safety pins to make a pirate costume. I pointed him to the drawer of crap. He saw the necklace and thought it would be great "treasure" for their game. Took it. Didn't ask.

DD (11yo) came and told me later.

DS now currently sent to his room for an hour. Our neighbours boys are over so he can hear everyone still playing pirates without him.

He is already under caution (and had electronics taken away) for watching Minecraft videos when told not to. (broke trust/disobeyed direct request)

So I need a sanction for the stealing. It is his birthday at the weekend. We are going out with all of us/celebrating with DH/doing cakes etc on the Sunday as DH will be there and then on his actual birthday - Monday - DD/DS and I were planning on going to Harry Potter World (it is Inset day here).

Is it too harsh a punishment to cancel Harry Potter World? For stealing? He doesn't seem to get it when he has done wrong. Says sorry but just looks a bit sulky when he does so. I really want to get the message across that twice he has broken trust (videos and now stealing) and this is really bad.

Or am I overplaying it?

AM so cross right now I am not sure if IABU or even too soft cos I love him even if he has been a toe-rag

Thank you

The oft-repeated mantra on MN is "Trust your instincts." In this case, I think your instincts are completely skewed, so please do not trust them. You have reacted in such an extreme fashion to behaviour that strikes me as entirely normal.

No, your son did not steal. What utter, utter nonsense. He took an old broken chain to use in a game for a bit. Seems perfectly reasonable.

And he is already "under caution"? What on earth does that mean?

I find it very disturbing that he has apologised and feels remorseful. He absolutely should not feel the slightest guilt. However, it sounds as though your household is one in which punishments occur frequently, where he is made to feel guilty frequently, where even the most innocent actions are framed as "really bad." I would be very concerned about him internalizing these so-called "morals" you are evidently trying to instill in him.

Poor kid.

It's not the same situation

Children don't play games with things they've found in drawers at school. Drawers that belong to their family

If, however, I found a child at school playing with something at school I'd remind them it didn't belong to them and ask them to put it back

If they took something home once, I'd gently remind them that school stuff is for everyone.

If they repeatedly took stuff home and I found out about it, I'd be wondering about their emotional wellbeing and look into that a bit more

If it was impulsivity I'd be more stern.

None of these responses to this very different situation bears comparison with the OPs

youarenotkiddingme

I agree that boundaries start at home. But if you are going to say that what the OP did and what others are suggesting she do is overly lax then i'd 100% reject that.

sorry, that should have read:

if you are suggesting what the OP did is OK, and what others are suggesting she should have done is too lax, then I'd 100% reject that

You sent him for an hour to his room?! Thats awful for something so small,he hasn't robbed a bank

Im glad you've taken posts on board OP, poor lad

lweji
I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I said, I don't allow my sons to scream at me either. Apologies if that's not what you meant or if you weren't even replying to me no offence whatsoever intended.
There have been many times when I HAVE screamed at the two of them and I do always apologise to them after for overreacting. Once I've calmed down!!
I agree with your last post btw. And

I clearly said I was agreeing cancelling the trip was OTT.

I think its very good to apologise to a child when you have done something wrong. Lead by example and demonstrate some honesty.

Exactly, walkingonlego.
And as a teacher, I will happily apologise to a child if I get something wrong.

wow OP - i would be terrified for your child when he actually does something wrong. Yes - what he did was not great - took something out of the crap drawer, but the punishment does not befit the crime (for lack of a better word!). 1 hour in his bedroom!? Christ alive. Sorry - but i do feel quite bad for your little boy.

I'm gobsmacked!

I'm known to be a pretty strict mother but this is ridiculous!

FWIW your 11yo DD sounds a bit of a snitch. What he did was nothing, you should be glad he can really get into playing pirates and having fun.

I think you're going to have an awful job at coping with teens if you carry on like this. To have to go to your room for an hour when the 'misdemenour' is grey in severity must have had him extremely puzzled.

PICK YOUR BATTLES

Anything that's in a rubbishy drawer was fair game here. If I happened to be there, they would ask me, if not, they borrowed it for their games and then put it back left it in a pile for me to put back

Next time let this go please.

littleshirleybeans, I was replying to this:

I live next door to someone whose mother constantly second guesses herself and apologizes to her kids. One of them (teens now) woke her - and me - up at 1am the other night screaming at her about something to do with money for school. I heard her apologize...

Definitely not you.

Agree Francis I would be more annoyed at the snitching by older sister. I used to hate that with my lot and never investigated if it was a snitch.

I hadn't read your updates when I posted, about the fact that the drawer was your personal drawer. Re punishments, you may find it helpful to look at ahaparenting website, written by a psychologist, she will expain about how and why the no punishment approach works. She promotes high expectations in terms of behaviour but also explains how the child's needs can and must be met at the same time. 9 year old taking something knowing he shouldn't could indicate he has needs which are not being met, as per notyoda's post i think.

fwiw, I personally don't think it works having a private space (your drawer) in a public area - I think it sends the wrong message about the house and home.

OP this item was not of value to you.

You gave that message loud and clear when you left it broken, discarded in a drawer full of junk in the kitchen, in my book that means it's fair game for anyone in the family to use if they wish.

I teach my kids to respect valuable possessions, and perhaps you do too. If this had been taken from a jewellery box in your bedroom then I can understand that you may be upset.

It wasn't stolen, it was upcycled.
I'd be congratulating the boy on his creativity.

You directed him to a drawer of crap when he asked for things for his costume. Can you not see how he would have assumed that anything he needed/wanted for his costume and game it would be ok to take from the drawer you told him to look in? It's not stealing imo. It's taking things for his costume from the drawer after he asked and you told him to go look in that drawer for things. Especially so if you said something like "check the drawer for whatever you need" which is what I would have done.

Stop punishing him and certainly don't punish him anymore. He doesn't get it because he, like most of mumsnet it seems, can't understand what he did wrong.

lweji
Ah, thanks! That makes sense now! Hope I didn't offend you.

littleshirleybeans

Not at all. :) My fault for not quoting the relevant bit on my first post.

Taking a chain from a kitchen drawer of junk to use in a pirate game is NOT stealing from you. YABVU and should stop treating your DS so badly.

This.

Different homes, different standards too.
I remember as a child being astonished that a friend of mine had to ask permission before getting anything to eat or to drink.
She had to ask to get a glass of water!

the hour in his room was because we have just been through a breaking our trust/lying thing with him over the minecraft video/youtube thing. I am not going to go into the ins and outs of that. But just yesterday he accepted he was in a position where he had to build up our trust again. (We have sat down with him and explained why the "please check first" with the vidoes. He knows the reasons why. And if he asks more often that not it is a yes but with a time limit/in the same room as an adult.).

So yes- in the heat of the moment, to me, 10 minutes would not cut it. Not just because of the necklace - but because of the stuff yesterday. Looking back now you are probably all correct in that it all (videos plus necklace) would not have connected for him. Too separate. Probably inappropriate. But I was so, so disappointed in him. And cross. I didn't shout. I didn't yell. Maybe would have been a lot quicker if I had just yelled. But I just wanted him to go and really think about it.

I have had a chat with him since then. And said that it was too long and I was sorry. He said it was fine, he was happy reading. But it helped him owrk out what he felt. Sad, annoyed, cross at himself and at me. He said when he took it he just really didn't think. He just wanted the necklace. He knows it is my stuff in that drawer and he should have asked.

Had a chat with DD about the snitching. She is normally pretty good at not being a snitch and normally both get short shrift if there is any. She did confess that this time she did kind of want to get DS in trouble as she had got in trouble over the video thing. Chat about that too.

Fuck me this parenting lark is fucking difficult sometimes.

I have reflected sometimes that I am too keen on compliance from the DCs. Yes - down to my and DH's own childhoods etc etc. I am waayyyy better than my parents but that does not mean I am not repeating some of their mistakes.

I think I need to do some deeper thought (and talk with DH) about changing some of our approach. I think maybe more consistency for a start. I kind of let them be a lot to learn stuff, play, have fun but then can be too controlling about things which on reflection are not that important. Things like "stuff" and belongings - respecting them and other people's property - it is important - but maybe I need to chill about it a bit more.

I don't know. All of this has been interspersed with helping DS sort out a big emotional friendship to-do with next door and then been administering some pirate-related first aid. Lots of blood and tears (lip) Not only is my head a-whirl but I stink of TCP! .

And please everyone, is it possible to cal down the "you went OTT you are evil" stance.

I over-reacted. Find me a parent that hasn't on occasion done the same.

It has made me realise I need to talk to DH. That I need to release the control/compliance. But it does not make me evil. You do not need to feel sorry for my son.

Sorry I am going to piggyback off this thread and ask what I should have done with my nearly 9 year old son, who was taking the money from his money box that is in my bedroom, and then when his money box was empty started taking money from his brothers money box???

He has no idea what happened to the money, (genuinely clueless!), as he took it to play with and probably just lost it somewhere. One of the notes was found in the kitchen on the floor, so the others were probably likewise just dropped (he does drop things all around the place, a problem in itself that I haven't been able to solve)

So what would be a suitable reaction to this scenario where he has taken his brothers money? Is it stealing in this instance?

You directed him to a drawer of crap when he asked for things for his costume.

She directed him to what he knew as Mummy's drawer - filled with her belongings. Cancelling Harry Potter trip would have been a ludicrous punishment (I'm not sure everyone knows she accents that), ten minutes in his room was perfectly adequate.

*Sorry, an hour. Still totally acceptable.