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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Quick poll - Is this the right level of punishment?

270 replies

ChickenAndSpinachBalti · 31/05/2017 14:34

Help MN jury. DS (nearly 9yo) took something of mine. Without asking. So he stole.

Just a cheapo, silver (ish) chain which was broken and in the kitchen-drawer-of-crap. Think it was there with a vague thought I may try and fix at some time. Been there for a while years probably. If he had asked I would have given it to him without a thought.

He was borrowing (and had asked nicely) some safety pins to make a pirate costume. I pointed him to the drawer of crap. He saw the necklace and thought it would be great "treasure" for their game. Took it. Didn't ask.

DD (11yo) came and told me later.

DS now currently sent to his room for an hour. Our neighbours boys are over so he can hear everyone still playing pirates without him.

He is already under caution (and had electronics taken away) for watching Minecraft videos when told not to. (broke trust/disobeyed direct request)

So I need a sanction for the stealing. It is his birthday at the weekend. We are going out with all of us/celebrating with DH/doing cakes etc on the Sunday as DH will be there and then on his actual birthday - Monday - DD/DS and I were planning on going to Harry Potter World (it is Inset day here).

Is it too harsh a punishment to cancel Harry Potter World? For stealing? He doesn't seem to get it when he has done wrong. Says sorry but just looks a bit sulky when he does so. I really want to get the message across that twice he has broken trust (videos and now stealing) and this is really bad.

Or am I overplaying it?

AM so cross right now I am not sure if IABU or even too soft cos I love him even if he has been a toe-rag

Thank you

OP posts:
notanevilstepmother · 31/05/2017 15:11

Mums not mum's. Autocorrect.

Lweji · 31/05/2017 15:12

BTW, not saying he didn't do something wrong, but I do think some time in the bedroom is enough.
And, no, I wouldn't do 1 hour. At his age not more than 10 min, followed by a proper chat.

SummerMummy88 · 31/05/2017 15:13

I'm glad your not my mummy, I agree with ALittleMop I think you should apologise to him

ALittleMop · 31/05/2017 15:13

It is not stealing.

It's fiddling about with someone else's stuff.

An appropriate sanction would be told to stop fiddling about with other people's stuff. Firmly, if necessary.

Original poster
ChickenAndSpinachBalti · 31/05/2017 15:16

I am not going to apologise for him for sending him to his room for an hour to think about it.

He took something that was not his. He had asked to take X. I said yes. He also took Y. Which is wrong. And if he went away thinking that taking something is OK really, cos it was just in a messy place - what the fuck message is that giving him?

Imagine the message you are all implying: Grandpa's medals are at the bottom of the sock drawer. The sock drawer is messy. Dad said I could use one of his socks to make a puppet. No-one ever uses Grandpa's medals. And the box is broken. So that is OK for me to take them without asking. Just no.

OP posts:
ScarlettFreestone · 31/05/2017 15:18

Glad you've seen the light Chicken, your post was very gracious in response to a flaming!

One thing to consider, the opposite to "too soft" isn't harsh punishments and lots of yelling.

I'm considered very strict. By everyone.

But there is rarely any shouting in our house and very rarely any punishments.

"very strict" means setting high standards of behaviour and the expectation that the children will meet those standards all the time.

ElphabaStrop · 31/05/2017 15:19

Legally, he has to have formed the intention to permanently deprive you of the necklace. He's also under the age of criminal responsibility. Therefore it is NOT "stealing". If you're going to treat him like a criminal at least check the law first. He's a little boy who saw something shiny and borrowed it without asking.

Even an hour in his room is too harsh IMO. Why didn't you just sit him down and have a chat with him about not borrowing other people's things without asking. Why are you trying to criminalise him?

Bugger me, you sound like my Mother - and I've been NC with her for several years. If I took a snack - even a piece of fruit - without asking she would punish me disproportionately harshly for "being a thief". 😱

WalkingOnLeg0 · 31/05/2017 15:19

But I do need to get through his head (and at nearly 9yo he is old enough) that stealing is wrong

Punishing a nine year old for stealing when he hadn't in fact stolen anything is more likely to encourage him to steal. He will learn he might as well steal because he gets punished even when he hasn't.

TheFallenMadonna · 31/05/2017 15:19

Do you need to punish to make it clear? Wouldn't an explanation of why you find it unacceptable be better?

TheFallenMadonna · 31/05/2017 15:20

Has he done similar before?

Original poster
ChickenAndSpinachBalti · 31/05/2017 15:23

10 minutes in his room for this is not long enough imvho. Despite what you are all saying this is a serious thing. It was not "fiddling about with someones stuff'. He took something of someone else's. Something, potentially, of value.

10 minutes would not have been noticed on his radar. I know my son. It would have been greeted with a shrug.

Instead he has thought about it and I can see he regrets what he did and is sorry. Genuinely sorry. As to just saying the words. We have had a chat and a big cuddle. I am happy with what has happened. How I handled it. I want my son to grow up knowing right from wrong ffs. I am not sure a "don't fiddle with my stuff" would send that message.

HPW will still be happening. He does not know it was even a thought of mine.

OP posts:
picklemepopcorn · 31/05/2017 15:24

Be really careful you don't teach him to lie. If you are too harsh, self preservation kicks in and they lie to avoid trouble.

DeadGood · 31/05/2017 15:24

Sorry OP, we aren't buying it. You should be apologising. You won't, but you should.

Children use/borrow/take their parent's stuff. They just do. It doesn't mean they will grow up to be thieves. Yes it can be annoying for the parent, but it is worth it for the close relationship you have with your kids. If you create this shitty home life where "mine is mine and your is yours, and keep the fuck out of my room" then you sacrifice that closeness.

Fruit ok, toys ok, books ok, but some random shit lying around - DEFINITELY NOT OK AND NEEDS SANCTION!!!1!! It's weird. Your categorisation of things will be lost on him. He will just become more and more confused, and keep you at arm's length because, in his mind, you are unpredictable and arbitrary.

Actually, the fact that he had to come asking you "nicely" for a safety pin makes me a little sad. That sort of thing should be readily available to him in his own home. He lives there!

CecilyP · 31/05/2017 15:25

But it is not stealing. It was something put in an accessible kitchen drawer full of bits and bobs. It didn't even leave the house/garden. Presumably he would have put it back in the same drawer along with the safety pins after finishing the game. If you are so territorial about your stuff, you should look after it better.

NotYoda · 31/05/2017 15:25

That was way over the top

A gentle reminder to ask was all that was necessary

He didn't sell it to buy crack

Jinglebells99 · 31/05/2017 15:26

Have you booked the tickets for Harry Potter World? Just checking that you know they need to be booked in advance.

ElphabaStrop · 31/05/2017 15:26

picklemepopcorn Yes, exactly.

Chicken at his age, 10 mins time out followed by a chat is plenty. An hour is too long.

And "Taking something belonging to someone else, without asking, is stealing" - it is not, as I explained above.

DeadGood · 31/05/2017 15:27

"10 minutes would not have been noticed on his radar... It would have been greeted with a shrug."

That's because you over punish him. He's become immune to you.

Seriously OP, I know it feels like we are just piling on for the fun of it, but your parenting is seriously off. Is this the first time you've ever asked for outside input? I think you and your partner have gone waaaaay out of the norm and are feeding into each other's sense of what is normal and right.

Highalert · 31/05/2017 15:27

He didn't steal anything. This can't be real surely?

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/05/2017 15:28

Two parenting principles I try to live by:

  1. I am helping to form a happy, well-adjusted adult, not a well-behaved child. So having DD understand why things are a good or bad idea is the thing, not making her comply.
  1. Punishments make children think about how to avoid punishments. Consequences and empathy make children learn to do the right thing.

In this case that would mean saying, "DD did you tell me to get DS in trouble or because you were worried about something?" and "DS there are things in that drawer [name one] that are really important to me. If you don't know you need to ask. What might have happened if you had taken [the thing] and lost it?" Have him think about consequences and feelings and come up with his own 'solution'.

I massively prefer solutions to punishments. So if DD does something wrong, she works out how to fix it. Clears up if she's spilled something, apologises and gives a hug if she's hurt someone's feelings, pays for something if she breaks it. She decides though. She gets to feel good, and no punishments is needed.

corythatwas · 31/05/2017 15:28

Nice to see the update.

Rather than thinking about the label, I think it would make more sense to have a chat about what is family property and what is personal property. Presumably he is allowed to help himself to a piece of sticking plaster or sellotape or a safety pin because that is family property? What made him wrong here was taking something which was in your personal drawer so not family property, however much it looked like a useless piece of junk. I imagine when you let him have something of little value in that drawer he kind of mentally relabelled other valueless items in that drawer as family property. Silly and thoughtless of him, but I would put that this way of stealing. Remind him again that you all have special places where you put things that are your own, not everybody's, and that it is not for somebody else to decide what is valuable and what is not.

StiginaGrump · 31/05/2017 15:29

You are bringing your children up to learn to lie like bastards and to snitch endlessly. He would greet ten minutes in his room with a shrug because he has learnt the inevitability of your over reactions.

I would really encourage you to reflect on why you are still defending a stance almost universally condemned as too harsh and that is just the hour in his room whilst his friends play.

NotYoda · 31/05/2017 15:32

Hera Hera MrsTerryPratchett

NotYoda · 31/05/2017 15:32

... or even Hear Hear Grin

mogonfoxnight · 31/05/2017 15:33

In our house, stuff in public areas such as kitchen drawers are up for grabs, stuff of value stay in safe places in people's rooms. DC would know that to take something from certain places in my room would incur wrath. But I still wouldn't call it stealing - not unless dc intended to not give it back, to hide it or throw it away or sell it or something. I think all you are going to achieve is a confused and angry child.

PS legal definition of theft - requires the intent to permanently deprive (someone else has probably already said this)