To wonder what you would think if your OH said that

[Poisongirl81]

Before being with you in his life he has had sex with men! A couple of times just for the sex. He's also had long term things with women and fancies me very much. Just don't know how to feel.

Just wondering as a single person when a good time to tell any prospective new partner that I'm bisexual would be.

Should I declare it on the first date, along with the fact that I like anal sex, I once had sex in a car, my first pet was a Guinea pig called mitzy, just in case any of these things are a deal breaker.

My sexual past bears no relation to how worthy I am as a partner.

You get ten internet points for saying you can't have homophobic tendencies or thoughts because you have gay friends or family. It's possible for gay people themselves to have homophobic thoughts or views so no one is exempt purely because of who they love. If you're using that as an excuse to not be self critical then it's poor.

If I found out my partner had had same sex encounters before we met it would be a total deal breaker because they wouldn't be the person i thought they were. The mindset and thought process they'd have to have to lead up to doing that would be so different to what I'd thought and would feel like a betrayal, like they are a different person. I would find it completely unattractive. Wanting anal would be a deal breaker as well.

I'm bisexual and I have to say the thought process isn't at alldifferent. I like and fancy this person, I trust them, I'd like to have sex with them.

I haven't said I don't have homophobic tendencies - clearly I do, according to you (and others)!

As I also said, it doesn't mean much to me what faceless randoms on a MN thread think. It doesn't count for much, and it doesn't alter my position.

The discussion is an interesting one, though!

I didn't say you had homophobic tendencies. I said that your cry of 'oh I have loads of black friends how could I possibly be racist' is so tired and wrong it's actually a meme in itself.

Yes it's a good discussion but please don't forget that for some of us it's our actual lives you're talking about.

I'm bisexual and I have to say the thought process isn't at alldifferent. I like and fancy this person, I trust them, I'd like to have sex with them.

But that premise is completely different to a straight person as they wouldn't want to have sex with a person of the same sex. So if my partner told me he was bisexual he would be a completely different person to what I thought and have a totally different mindset.

Just wondering as a single person when a good time to tell any prospective new partner that I'm bisexual would be.

This is pretty much what I said upthread Chesty. Though why should anyone just assume I'm heterosexual in the first place? I also pointed out earlier that research shows that bisexuals have worse mental health than any other sexual orientation because we are rejected by both straight and lesbian and gay communities, and also identify with your point about this is people's lives. It doesn't make me feel great that people would reject me just because of my sexual orientation and nothing else.

So if my partner told me he was bisexual he would be a completely different person to what I thought and have a totally different mindset.

What would that totally different mindset be?

I don't mind being rejected because I'm bisexual, really, that's a choice. Someone can reject me on whatever spurious reason they choose, they don't like my shoes, my last name reminds them of an ex, whatever.

But if someone fell in love with me, and clearly did find me attractive, and enjoyed sex with me, and trusted me and loved me and then 'found out' this 'awful secret' about me, and decided they no longer found me attractive? That would hurt.

Or even worse saw it as a betrayal! Its got nothing to do with them who I used to be in a relationship with. As long as it was legal and consensual.

Apologies chesty, I don't mean to make light of it, genuinely.

Up until now, this has been a private thought, shared with no-one. It's not like I go around announcing that I won't have sex with someone who X, Y, and Z.

I acknowledge that to some people my stance may mean I have homophobic tendencies (and when I did that, got asked 'why the need for sackcloth and ashes?).

I know it's a total cliché to say 'but some of my best friends are...'. That doesn't mean anything - clearly. I know what's in my head and my heart, though.

Just like I'm not a perfect feminist, say, I'm not perfect in other areas, either.

Apologies if I've offended you, it was never my intention.

I've had three different types of reactions from men (I'm a woman):

1. Yeah whatever it doesn't matter to me.
2. I'm never going to be enough, you fancy xxxx, with xxxx generally being any lesbian that's my friend.
3. That's hot tell me about the sex you've had with women

Thank you for the kind message Dowager.

Homophobia has a meaning, and it doesn't mean "doesn't want to fuck someone who takes part in homosexual acts".

Sorry but that's bullshit. It's not the same as not havin sex with a white man who'd had sex with a black woman... because you can't do a "black act" it's stupid and not equivalent.

Many gay men are put off by men who were living as straight previously. Look it up. No one is calling them raging misogynists or "heterophobes".

I am not "afraid" of gay people. I am not phobic. I don't hate gay men. I support equal rights in all forms for gays and lesbians.

Should I declare it on the first date, along with the fact that I like anal sex, I once had sex in a car, my first pet was a Guinea pig called mitzy, just in case any of these things are a deal breaker.

You don't have to declare at any point in a relationship. But if you do be prepared that if you do that a potential partner might be put off by guinea pig owners and they can't help that. It's their business.

A potential partner yes (see above)

But to be told by a current partner that I'm not the person I said I was because of my sexual and relationship history makes no sense to me. I am the person I say I am.

There are a million things I could find out about someone who I've been with for decades that would put me off. They've not changed, no, but I'm now aware of the thing ilthat would have put me off as a potential partner in the first place.

Wikipedia defines homophobia as:

"a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It has been defined as contempt, prejudice, aversion, hatred or antipathy"

This seems like a good definition to me, and I'm wondering how not wanting to have a relationship with someone because they've had same sex relationships in the past doesn't meet that definition - how would you define it instead?

There are a million things I could find out about someone who I've been with for decades that would put me off

Just to clarify. If you truly believe being gay makes you less of a man, you ARE homophobic. Which you have every right to be when selecting your sexual partners, but there is no hiding from the fact that this statement is steeped in sexist, homophobic views.

But to be honest, one can take a horse to water and all that.... it has been logically pointed out many many times that the underlying feelings which cause people to be 'repulsed' (i.e. Thinking gay sex makes a man less manly) are most definitely homophobic. The definition has been presented (and it's not just gay fear).

But some people just actually are incapable of a little self reflection- either that or they are just happy with their homophobic views.

I personally think if you wrote
Somebody off totally because they had a few same sex encounters, YOU are the one who missing out.

Also totally agree with pps about prostitutes and age differences not being true parallels because they are abuses of power

Wikipedia defines homophobia as:

a range of negative attitudes and feelings ...

Right. A range of negative attitudes. This is just one.

I mean, I'm not saying it's great. But it's like saying you can't call yourself a feminist if you wear make-up.

I think Wikipedia means that any one of the range is homophobia rather than you have to clock up a few before it counts...!

That's not how I interpret it. In any case, my feminist analogy still applies.

We're never going to all agree on this - it is what it is.

I think you can call yourself a feminist because that's a broad category and undertake actions that are not feminist just because we have to sometimes in order to get by / fit in / look after ourselves, e.g. your make up thing. But I don't think it's the same saying that you're not homophobic because you're only sometimes homophobic, just a little bit, in certain situations where it suits you, as long as it doesn't affect you personally too much. It would be more of a parallel to say you believe in equality of lesbian, gay and bisexual people, but you recognise sometimes that you have feelings and attitudes that act against this. I think someone else said upthread, as people who are in or have had same sex relationships we have internalised homophobia too, sometimes quite a lot, perhaps especially for those of us who came out a while ago when attitudes were much worse. This to me would be more honest (which I think is kind of where you were Dowager in a thoughtful way with one of your previous posts) than people are saying nope, no homophobia here, even if LGB people are telling me it is.

One of the sentences above doesn't make sense! I meant you are okay with same sex relationships as long as it doesn't affect you too much.