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"UK home to 23,000 Jihadis"

372 replies

user666999 · 27/05/2017 19:12

This is the title from a Times article today. Bloody hell. This is a shockingly high number. I find this really scary. There really needs to be some major plan rather than just more waffle from this useless Government. I just don't see how this genie can be put back in the bottle and I think things will only get worse.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

OP posts:
CrossWordSalad · 28/05/2017 13:29

Rose Indeed. Both Maajid Nawaz and Haras Rafiq have talked an enourmous amount of sense since the bombing.

Here is Maajid Nawaz on Fox News
m.youtube.com/watch?v=YfQ0sshVP8c

derxa · 28/05/2017 13:47

metro.co.uk/2017/05/28/family-of-manchester-terror-victim-warn-government-to-open-its-eyes-before-its-too-late-6667225/
Lest we forget. There are grieving people out there. I don't think they care too much about the poor wee jihadists.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/05/2017 13:51

I'm thankful that most still appreciate "the 23,000" in no way represent the views of the majority

Nevertheless, the minimisation around that number which happens on MN is downright disturbing

Orlantina · 28/05/2017 13:54

puzzled

But what do you expect Government to do that's not being done already?

OCSockOrphanage · 28/05/2017 13:58

I would prefer to see a completely secular state, in which all overt symbols of religious adherence are frowned upon, such as in France. However, France has its own difficulties with sections of the population feeling alienated and isolated from the mainstream. There's an article in today's Sunday Times about Gilles Kepel, a politics writer and lecturer who has become the subject of a fatwa.

Radical Islamist sects of the Salafist, Wahabi and Sunni variants are being fuelled through a proxy war on multiple levels between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It's a battle for the hearts and minds of the Muslim world across the Middle East and parts of Africa. Sadly, it has destabilised the region so comprehensively (with ill-judged interventions from the West and Russia) that it has caused the flight of refugees, as well as those people just fleeing poverty and lack of opportunity.

However, having made their corner of the world unsafe and untenable, some refugees bring their grievances and fights with them. Unless migrants relinquish their "baggage" and embrace the customs in their sanctuary, modifying their behaviour to conform, there will be resentment from the poor and ignorant indigenous populations of the countries which have opened their doors. I am often struck by the tendency of liberal elite types to mouth kindly platitudes while not experiencing any of the discomforts that accompany large scale attempts to re-settle an influx of strangers. In this county, we have some 30,000 second homes, and almost 20,000 people on social housing waiting lists; there would be immense resentment if even 50 refugees were accommodated ahead before them.

FanjoForTheMammaries · 28/05/2017 14:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sionella · 28/05/2017 14:21

orlantina - yep. and when another group goes into an arena full of young teenagers enjoying themselves and butchers them, we'll talk about those problems too. right now, this is the most pressing!

you are so desperate to assure everyone that it's a tiny minority - which we all know - that you miss the point of what even a tiny minority can do.

derxa · 28/05/2017 14:25

Yes derxa people feel sorry for the jihadists of course I was being sarcastic as you well know.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/05/2017 14:31

Orlantina I'd like to see mobilisation of the support of the decent majority, to enable a much tougher stance against extremism and the violence which can result. The methods would be for others to decide, but might include closer surveillance of places such as schools and mosques, more positive vetting, better immigration procedures and whatever else was deemed necessary

I have a lot more faith in the good intentions of that "decent majority" than some, and personally believe that most would be prepared to accept some inconvenience - and perhaps even some community dissent - in order to root out this appalling problem which affects everyone

Of course if I'm wrong on that, then it may be that even more difficult discussions will need to be had

FanjoForTheMammaries · 28/05/2017 14:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LouMumsnet · 28/05/2017 15:34

We've had a fair few reports about this thread and have also had to delete some posts which broke our talk guidelines. We know that feelings are high after the tragic events of this week.

We encourage robust debate on Mumsnet and certainly don't want to censor discussion about faith and beliefs. However, blanket statements about members of a faith are not acceptable. Please do bear this in mind before posting, along with being respectful of other MNers in your posts, even if you don't agree with their viewpoints.

Mumsnet is a place for parents to give advice and support each other, and one thing we could all do with right now is some peace and love.

Thanks all.

Carebear892 · 28/05/2017 15:46

But what do you expect Government to do that's not being done already?

The government needs to be honest about this. No country which has taken in large numbers from Islamic countries has found a way to stop this problem. From the USA, to ultra liberal Sweden, they are all facing the same problems. So tinkering with the prevent strategy or cracking down on any speech which could possibly offend (as some seem to want to do on this thread) will have little effect.

The only countries who don't have this problem are ones who have refused to accept mass Islamic migration, such as Japan, Korea, Poland and much of Eastern Europe. They have said they would rather face any punishment from the EU than take in any "refugees", and who can blame them when they look at Western Europe right now.

So, the government needs to stop adding to the problems we already have.

FanjoForTheMammaries · 28/05/2017 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Orlantina · 28/05/2017 16:01

that you miss the point of what even a tiny minority can do

We are all aware of what a tiny minority can do.

I think we need to have the Muslim community on side in this fight. To work with people in the community.

I am concerned that an over reaction to this might well lead to alienating more members of the community, making them less likely to report people and more likely to become even more alienated.

Which would lead to even more events like last week - and that's the last thing people want.

No one wants to see events like last week happen again. But there are very different approaches to how to react to it without making it more likely to happen again.

Orlantina · 28/05/2017 16:03

We do also need to look at the messages some people are getting and how to identify people at risk of being radicalised by that message.

What makes them become radicalised?
Is there a type of person who is more vulnerable to radicalisation?
If someone is identified as having become radicalised, what should be done about it?

DoctorDonnaNoble · 28/05/2017 16:04

The terror attacks we've experienced are often 'homegrown'.
Something which needs a lot more work is the problem of radicalisation in prisons. An awfully large number of Muslims have been radicalised in prison. A large number of these terrorists have a history of petty crime

MissBax · 28/05/2017 16:05

It's 0.03% of the population when put into context. I know it's awful but there's probably far more % of rapists/murderers/pedophiles unfortunately :(
Not that that's meant to make you feel better, but it is a minute number and we have to have hope that our anti-terrorist services are very successful in preventing these things, which they are!

Sionella · 28/05/2017 16:09

"An over reaction" ?? To something like what just happened in manchester? Shock

Would you look the grieving families in the face and tell them they are "over reacting"?

Sionella · 28/05/2017 16:10

Yes, the link with crime and subsequent radicalisation is one that has been proven time and time again, sadly. I guess if you're already used to crime and violence, it's a much shorter step.

mogulfield · 28/05/2017 16:20

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b076cg3d

Has anyone listened to this documentary? A fair stab at trying to tackle the issue of violent Islam and more extreme/conservative mosques that propagate these beliefsfs... I must admit I found it shocking. It's not 'a very small minority' but let me be clear it's NOT the majority.
What I'm trying to inarticulately say, it's not 0.0001% as I used to believe (and still want to believe). :(

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 28/05/2017 16:30

"Powers to stop suspected extremists returning to the UK have been used for the first time, Amber Rudd has revealed."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40072251

Finally, about fucking time.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/05/2017 17:25

I'd like to think so, WhatToDo - I'd also like to think it's not just a "look at what we're doing!!" thing for the sake of the polls

However given the complete lack of detail she gave (though I appreciate only so much can be said because of security) I believe the jury's probably still out on that one ...

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