"UK home to 23,000 Jihadis"

[user666999]

This is the title from a Times article today. Bloody hell. This is a shockingly high number. I find this really scary. There really needs to be some major plan rather than just more waffle from this useless Government. I just don't see how this genie can be put back in the bottle and I think things will only get worse.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

But if true this Manchester bomber was amongst the 20000 considered not so dangerous.

This thread has depressed me. I can't believe the hate spouted on here. I lost someone dear to me at Bataclan and he would be fucking ashamed to read this crap and that people are using his death to justify such unjustified hatred.
This is what ISIS wants. It helps them radicalise young Muslims who face suspicion and abuse wherever they go.
How dare you.

moomoo it does need to work both ways. The UK has bent over backwards to accommodate Muslim people and we have schools and policies and mosques in place to support that.

I think in many ways it has been counter productive and the immigration of the 60s could only have worked properly if there was proper integration at that point. As I understand it, cries for immigrants to assimilate and learn English were met with cries of "racism" and then we had Enoch Powell who was sacked for his opinion.

I think he was correct. Multiculturalism is a complete failure and we are seeing that across Europe. Diversity in communities means people living in their own pockets.
People in the U.K. tried to embrace diversity but their own values were rejected by the people arriving.

It's probably to late now as we have a huge, huge problem in our midst and right across Europe.

Of course we cannot deport people or imprison those suspected.

We can but only try to start from the beginning and integrate communities but that means very tough decisions about the absolute requirement to speak English, removal of facial veils and closing faith schools. These do not fit into our culture. And the UK does have a culture. We promote the the rights of gays and women and separate religion from law. Being absolutely blunt, I do feel that Islam sits uncomfortably with those values.

My shred of optimism comes from some of the opinions I have heard of late from women in the Muslim community who seem determined and enlightened.

According to the Home Secretary, you can be on the "20,000" list for any number of reasons - from things as simple as a tip off or a phone call.

It helps them radicalise young Muslims who face suspicion and abuse wherever they go

This. If ever there was a way to feel alienated, the growing attitude towards Muslims in this country is the way to go and fuel that alienation.

donna what depresses me is that we now have an acceptance for normalising the terror attached we now see across Europe and that is a terrible price to pay for failed policies at the time of mass immigration.

This thread is not ALL hatred. By saying that the questions and concerns that are real are shut down. What depresses me is that headline '23000 jihadis' not so long ago that would have been laughed and scoffed at as DM scaremongering and inciting anti muslim brigade. Now a respected newspaper is quoting it as fact.

fanjo well he predicted exactly the clash he was seeing now. What is incorrect about that?

Or are you trying to tell me that multiculturalism works because if so I would like an example.

Quite a lot of posts especially at the start of this thread with very much the same agenda. Feels a bit co-ordinated?

Well, I am quite relaxed in that I'm not panicking Cross, that does no good. I refuse to live in terror because of all this.

I think you are underestimating the damage this terrorism does, not just to all those killed and injured and their loved ones but to all of us. You seem to feel it is some kind of moral badge of honour that you are relaxed. I really find that hard to understand.

And that's not a huge number compared to what it could be.

Will you be not relaxed when it's 40,000 or 60,000? What's your threshold for when you think having people within our communities who want to wreak havoc on their own towns and cities is worth being a bit disturbed about?

From what I can tell, the reason those 3,000 are distinguished from the larger number is because those are the ones judged to be the real threats. Those are the ones you should be concerned about

Okay. All fine. Lee Rigby's murderer, not on the active (currently 3000) list.

Westminster attacker, not on the active list.

Manchester bomber, not on the active list.

But obviously you have greater knowledge and can categorically state that we only need to worry about the 3000 on the list.

We can but only try to start from the beginning and integrate communities but that means very tough decisions about the absolute requirement to speak English, removal of facial veils and closing faith schools

Would you apply that to ALL people? So C of E faith schools, Catholic faith schools etc?

There are other religions that still have issues with women and the LGBT community for example.

crossword

So again - you've got the list. You're Home Secretary.

What do you do?

It should also be noted we have large numbers of immigrants from other countries and races who happily live amongst us and integrate and take on board our values, and learn our language, who express their love for our country. The difference with Muslim communities is that they live in their own tight knit communities, don't always learn our language, don't want to integrate and dislike our values and treat non muslims with hostility. Whilst we are asked to be tolerant of their culture, they don't reciprocate, and a lot of them dislike the different way non muslims live. Because they don't integrate, they only hear the views and ideals given out by people in their own bubble. I guess in the end it just means a lot of education is needed with the very young muslim children, the new generations, as I think the older ones in the communities will resist any attempts to change.

That's not actually true though is it, beyond a very small section of what you refer to as the "Muslim community"?

The difference with Muslim communities is that they live in their own tight knit communities, don't always learn our language, don't want to integrate and dislike our values and treat non muslims with hostility

Is that right? I really must tell the Muslim children who I have taught that they haven't learnt English despite being born here. And then they go off to University and get jobs all over the UK.

I agree with much of what you say Gipsy, and believe that you have a perfect right to say it. Those wailing 'racist' are just trying to shut down debate, as they have for several years now. We have to be able to have the discussion if we are ever to find solutions. However to many on this thread the very idea of public discussion on this important and sensitive topic is a racist outrage. Do t let them bully you into silence.

orlantina I don't honestly know.

I'm an atheist and so religious schools seem bonkers to me all round.

But the Uk has a Christian background and I would respect that. I think we have to protect the culture of the home nation as much as the anything.

None of what has happened justifies the actions people are talking about (this was tried in NI; it resulted in more radicalisation as the community felt persecuted). All of these actions are TOO LATE. We need to look at why people become radicalise and try and prevent that. But that requires us all to work together. And it doesn't sound like some of this thread want to do that. The family of my friend think differently and have set up a trust in his memory to do just that. That is taking action.

@Whizbang I'm sorry but Gipsy's comments are inflammatory and offensive.

I think we have to protect the culture of the home nation as much as the anything

I wonder what all those people though a long time ago before Christianity was brought to the UK by foreigners.....

People born here are as much as part of this nation as everyone else.

Exactly what even IS this culture people talk about protecting. How far back do you have to go to count as British? I'm a Celt so I'm assuming I'm ok.

LiveLove I think your post is making generalisations about the "Muslim community" which are not the case for many Muslims.

I actually find it a bit concerning that there appears to be a deliberate and co-ordinated attempt to spread far-right propaganda against a community and to normalize hate speech.

Pretty much the last thing that's needed right now and disgraceful to use the deaths of innocent people in this way.

orlatina that was what. A thousand years ago? 🙊

Bloody Normans, coming in and taking over the country.
Or was it the Vikings?
Romans?

Do we look at the immigration in the 50s and 60s?