"UK home to 23,000 Jihadis"

[user666999]

This is the title from a Times article today. Bloody hell. This is a shockingly high number. I find this really scary. There really needs to be some major plan rather than just more waffle from this useless Government. I just don't see how this genie can be put back in the bottle and I think things will only get worse.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

@ToastDemon agreed.

Orlantina Thanks for the question, I will reply later.

Just a quick reply to Doctor, I don't think protecting our culture has got anything to do with who people's descendants are. It is about the culture we have now and how we live. You know, trivial things like democracy, equal rights for women, a fair justice system, tolerance of religious differences. I think these are the types of things people want to protect from Islamist extremists.

Charlieismydarlin - Are you for real? What about natives of the Isles who don't speak English? You had to have mass immigration to replace all the others that were systematically, group by group, called terrorists or treated like lowlifes and knocked off!! What about all the corruption and warmongering that's gone on for centuries before this?

Cross, yes, I honestly think a lot of people need to calm down.

My entire family except me work in the front-line police. Without outing myself with details, some have been involved in very unpleasant incidents, one "terrorism" related. I'm extremely aware of the risks and the feeling of fear that can surge up.

There's just no point living that way though, it's pointless. No badges of honour involved.

Danger is all around us and most people in the U.K. will suffer from things completely unrelated to terrorism. Illnesses, accidents, intentional nastiness. Do you live in panic of those too?

Again - the bigger list will mostly be people who aren't actively dangerous. Some will be on there who get "upgraded" to danger. Some will be on the shorter list who will be "downgraded". There will always be a few anomalies either way.

But why do you think all 23,000 (or more as you hint) haven't just gone for it and annihilated everyone? Is there any chance there's some massive fear-mongering going on here?

On the flip side if 23,000 or million or whatever people are ready to just explode, then you might as well enjoy life while you can and prepare for the end. Panicking and calling for exile won't help. You can call that boastful if you like, but there's nothing most people can do either way except hope the experts are doing all they can.

Yes Toast, I agree too, it's a bit odd isn't it? A little like during pre-brexit when there was a sudden loud consistent tone. Makes you feel special in one way that somewhere like Mumsnet is obviously worth working on.

CrosdWordSalad I agree there. And protecting our fair justice system and culture of religious tolerance is exactly what I'm arguing for here.

You know, trivial things like democracy, equal rights for women, a fair justice system, tolerance of religious differences

A fair justice system - indeed. Including human rights, not being jailed without a trial in front of your peers.

I fear some people would give that up.

Those things aren't under threat though. They would be if we start chipping away at the rule of law ourselves though. Victimising an entire community results in further radicalisation. It's not difficult to grasp.

Doctor Donna...sorry but I disagree, she has the right to express her opinion just as you or I do, without her voice being silenced by those who might not agree. We still live in a free society last time I checked.

Orlantina

This thread is about 2017 & the problem we have with Muslim terrorists who hate our way of life - our way of life in 2017
If you want to continually deflect the real issue than carry on.

@Whizbang and I have the right to say she's plain wrong. And inflammatory. The comments made about Islam and Muslims by some on this thread are part of what is used to recruit extremists.
You don't fight hate with hate. It does not work. We prove the extremists wrong.

@surferjet but many on this thread seem to have a problem with Islam in general. All this talk of 'people with muslim names' is beyond repellent. It seems some people here genuinely want to round up some of my students 'just in case'. If we over turn our rule of law then we are no better and are moving to a society such as the one ISIS want.

If you want to continually deflect the real issue than carry on

That was in response to community and culture.

Our culture keeps changing. People have come here and settled here for centuries. They are as much as part of UK culture as anyone else.

Some people see others as not being part of UK culture and feel the need to constantly 'other' them - for various reasons.

whiz she said that anyone with a 'Muslim sounding name' should be banned from public events such as sports games, concerts etc. That's not an 'opinion' that's hate speech.

The UK is a mix of many people with many backgrounds - and heritages. A mix of people with a range of religions, religious views and non religious views.

All born here. All British.

The OVERWHELMING number of people in the UK manage to live together, work together, find relationships, play, socialise and get on with each other.

That is pretty amazing and something to celebrate. Compared to many countries in the world, we get on well with people in our country who may have different views to us.

I fear that there are some people who are trying to divide us. But the OVERWHELMING number of people get on ok.

orlatina

Really? You think that?

Carry on love.

Try telling that to the people of Rotherham.

Danger is all around us and most people in the U.K. will suffer from things completely unrelated to terrorism. Illnesses, accidents, intentional nastiness. Do you live in panic of those too?

I'm unsure why you keep accusing me of panic. I think we need to acknowledge the reality, threat and aims of extremist Islamist ideology and terrorism.

But why do you think all 23,000 (or more as you hint) haven't just gone for it and annihilated everyone? Is there any chance there's some massive fear-mongering going on here?

I pointed out that the perpetrators of the last three Islamist terrorism attacks in the UK were not on the list.

No, I don't think there is massive fear-mongering going on. I find it very strange that there is less outrage and horror at the fact that the security forces know of 23,000 jihadi living in our communities.

On the flip side if 23,000 or million or whatever people are ready to just explode, then you might as well enjoy life while you can and prepare for the end. Panicking and calling for exile won't help. You can call that boastful if you like, but there's nothing most people can do either way except hope the experts are doing all they can

Do you really think there is nothing that we, as a country, can and should do about this threat? We should all just get on with something else and not worry our pretty little heads? And it's not just about the security forces is it? We've got politicians like Andy Burnham, mayor of Manchester, claiming that the Arena bomber isn't a Muslim and was a lone wolf, and trying to scupper the government's Prevent strategy. There are so many problems with how we are addressing this.

Really? You think that

Yes, I do actually.

Oh - and Rotherham? Are you concerned about male violence and male sexual violence? I believe that non Muslim men also commit a lot of rape, sexual assault and sexual violence as well?

Do you really think there is nothing that we, as a country, can and should do about this threat

So what do you want to do?

There are some sick individuals on this thread. I have a name that might "sound Muslim". (It isn't.) Should I be banned from public places too?

I'm all in favour of open discussion and debate, but ignorant racist fuckwits just piss me off.

@Charlieismydarlin Rotherham wasn't just about people worried about being called racist (there was also a white ring in Devon for example). It was complex and had a lot to do with people judging girls from a certain social background (it was clear from Three Girls that many involved didn't consider the girls to be victims!!). There is indeed a problem in certain parts of the Pakistani community (it's also clear they aren't 'good' Muslims - sex outside of marriage is haram). There is also a problem in the white male community. In fact, there is a problem with how some men from a range of backgrounds think about women.

And I agree with Orlantina. I live in a very diverse community and we all get on just fine.

@CrossWordSalad the arena bomber isn't a Muslim. He's at most an Islamist. There is a difference. The concept of Jihad doesn't actually allow for this kind of action. Under Muslim doctrine he will be very very harshly judged by Allah. Particularly has he chose to murder innocents.

I think what often happens is that people start talking about wanting to defend our culture and way of life. Some other people then read this as these people meaning some sort of nostalgic, white British only type culture and way of life.

I don't think that's what the majority of people mean. I think they mean our pluralist, religiously free, democratic, reasonably equitable society.

Look at countries or areas were extreme Islamist ideology is in control. That's what people want to defend our culture against.

That's what people want to defend our culture against

I don't think our culture is at risk, do you?