To think that "working mums set a great example to their children" is largely nonsense

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I grew up with a SAHM. It was bloody fantastic! Picked up by my mum, home after school, she came to assemblies, sports days, plays etc, I was able to have friends over after school. Plus I just loved being with my mum after school. There was something homely, comforting and cosy about it.

I didn't give the fact my mum didn't work any thought whatsoever. I worked like a dog for my GCSEs, a-levels, degree, professional exams and got a good well paid interesting career. I gave it up when I had my first child 7 years ago.

I'm a SAHM now, however next year I'm jumping in at the deep end. Will be commuting and long hours in a professional role. A number of people have said to me along the line "oh you'll be setting so much of a better example now for your children".

Am I alone in thinking "wtf?". A 7 year doesn't give a flying fig about whether his mum works. He/she would MUCH prefer mum to be picking him up from school, making his dinner, helping him with his reading, not having to go to a child minder / holiday clubs in the holidays?

It certainly didn't stop me pursuing a very good career, and the school I went to (private academic girls school) the vast majority of mothers didn't work, and many of those girls have gone on to have great career success (medicine, finance etc)

Is this just an argument pulled out by working mums trying to make themselves feel better? I'm going to be a working mum on a few months, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not going to think that my children are benefiting from the example I'm setting. I think some people forget how self absorbed most children are and seeing you dash off to work to do something important really isn't either here nor there for them!

I think people with no ambition other to have kids and do housework are simpletons. So what?

This is exactly what I mean above about sniping. Can you not imagine that other people can have an intellectually fulfilling life without work? Or that there's absolutely nothing wrong at all with wanting to be a homemaker and raise kids?? It may not be the choice you make, but other people's choices can be valid even if they aren't yours. I'm not vegetarian - no way I would be. Yet I have no problems whatsoever seeing that for many people my stance on meat isn't what they would choose. It's a form of arrogance to think otherwise

I'm a scientist working in a clinical trial based role. I deal with financials (hundreds of millions) and have a team of hundreds. I have 'a career' (what's fucking left of it after the fuckers demoted me after I got pregnant...) so I am by no means a simpleton. And yet...

I would never, ever dream of calling a sah parent a simpleton. I had a good long maternity leave with ds and it was GREAT. We had a lot of fun. It was hard some days. But it was never boring. I actually felt mild envy of the (very few) kept women/men I know who can stay home without financial worry.

Being at work had its grindingly dull moments. Being at home does too, I'm sure. Neither choice is morally superior to the other. Each family makes the choice that's right for them to the degree they can (constrained by money/circumstances.)

Personally I'd love to go and live on a croft in Ardnamurchan and make my own yarn. Does that make me a simpleton? Or maybe just an introvert who lives a very fulfilling life without much external input?

Jacques I didn't say that. I'm making the point that they are countering gender stereotypes- which SAHM / working dads who don't see their kids, are not. That's really important to me. It is clearly less important to other people. Or they are less aware of the issue.

Grumpy but the thing is, should I have countered stereotypes at the expense of what actually worked best for us? The family dynamic that made us both happy? That is all a bit leaning towards being a martyr to me.

It is what works for the family. The working parent gets to be looked after and the sah one gets to not work. If you find someone/are someone not career minded and marry the opposite, everyone is a winner.

Jacques that is a great question and one I still don't know the answer to.. but l was talking about what sets a better example to kids, (IMO). You can't separate the fact that women are structurally under earning men from the fact that women overwhelmingly make the "choice" to SAH, so "its best for my family" hardly ever means the dad SAH. That's basically what annoys me.

Agreed. But it's a vicious circle I think, women ears less so stays at home, because women stay at home they earn less?

Anecdotally for us, income was less important. It was "yeah ok I like my job but it's not a passion" vs "my job is my dream, I adore it" - it just happened that his happened first!!

That makes sense. I still feel like I'm fighting the societal expectations because it totally makes sense for DH to SAH or at least cut hours, but he's not easily (psychologically) able to (even though he hates his job and rationally he agrees it makes sense for our family). Meanwhile I'm wracked with guilt for working 8-6 🤔

grumpy A while ago, DH and I decided to change our working lives.

Me to start working outside the home more ( prior to that I'd worked predominantly from home) and DH to work from home more (and take more domestic and familial responsibilities).

It's been fabulous for both of us. And I'm really pleased our DC have seen a less binary approach to parenting. And DH has earned even more dosh than before so win, win.

I hope one example we've set is that it's not impossible to set your own agenda that includes happy family life and fulfilling work.

Bollocks to not doing what you want to do and what works for your family because some other woman thinks it's a gender stereotype. If the pressure for men to WOH and women to sacrifice their careers is unreasonable, so is the bloody reverse - stop trying to pressurise other people to fight your battles for you when it is not actually in their own personal interests to do that. Just as sometimes it would be better for the father to be a SAHD, sometimes it's better for the mother to be a SAHM. What isn't necessary is all the fucking sniping and whining about it.

Just as sometimes it would be better for the father to be a SAHD, sometimes it's better for the mother to be a SAHM

I don't disagree. But it's still very asymmetric.

What might help both men and women who want to take time out of the workplace to bring up small children is a change in the ridiculous attitude that your brain turns to mush and you become unemployable/prove yourself to be lacking any ambition for the entire rest of your long life. Time out is time out, not a desire to commit career suicide.

@roundaboutthetown totally agree. But until more men do it, employer attitudes are unlikely to change.

It's not sniping to object to the fact that so few men make the "choice" to SAH.

OP,
i had a mum that worked FT from when i was a small baby. I was/am proud of her but purely cos she was clever, worked in a professional job which was male dominated and also manged to do everything for me. She was quite often the breadwinner.
However, from my perspective I didn't really see this as "setting me a good example" so that i would go to work and do the same. That is just nonsense. I remember being really envious that everyone else's Mum were SAHM (in that decade). I just really wanted my Mum to be picking me up everyday and be there in the school holidays. I noticed when my parents were having small arguments about who's going to sports day and who went last time etc. who's going to have to take annual leave when i was too sick to go to school. I felt like i was inconveniencing them sometimes.
I was a pretty chilled out kid that infuriated my mother. She was highly motivated straight A kind of student. I was a bit more can't be bothered. My motivation to do well kicked in much later, when i found out what it was like to struggle on a poor salary, and i did quite well in the end.
However, even now my Mum says, she wished she could have been a SAHM as she thinks i would have done better (academically). Not sure why.
So i agree with you, and I am living proof of Mum going to work does NOT necessarily result in setting a good example.

After 9 months growing a baby inside you and all the hormones that go with that, I personally think that it will always be the case that in the early months or even longer, more women than men will want some time out. For so long as the view continues that time out for family equates to lack of ambition or brain turning to mush, it is extremely offputting for men to also harm their careers by joining in with the career suicide involved.

@Loopytiles thank you 👏🏼

100% agree! Well done on your new role. I hope it goes well and well done for the year you've been at home. It won't be as publicly recognised but it's a hugely formative time for your children.

From OP's original post:
I'm going to be a working mum on a few months, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not going to think that my children are benefiting from the example I'm setting

Really? It is setting them a good example of working really hard outside the home, being super organised, perhaps attaining achievements in your work worthy of pride, contributing to society via the tax system (plenty of others ways to contribute noted).

Working mums have it really tough and managing to do it is something to be proud of.

Some of the responses on this thread are illogical. I could climb Everest and it would set a good example to my children. That does not mean mums who have not climbed Everest are not setting a good example. We all have myriad opportunities every day to be good role models to our children. Paid work is one.. it's not the only one but it's the specific one the OP came to ask about.

^years not year

I think many WOHM set a good example to their children. Working hard, having a valuable fulfilling career or job, multi tasking, showing both sons and daughters what can be achieved are all good lessons for children to learn. Of course, they don't appreciate these things when they are little but they will as they get older and children are certainly not the best judge of what is good for them. That is why they have adult parents to care for them and guide them.

Not to say that many SAHM don't set good examples in other ways, being available to care/ help their children with a range of things, doing valuable voluntary/ community work/ looking after elderly relatives, etc.

Personally, my mum was a SAHM and although it was great when we were young, it was less great as we grew up for many reasons, some of which other posters have mentioned. I have friends who had both working and SAHMs and I can't see any difference in their achievements/ closeness of the relationships with their mothers as a result of these choices.

I find grumpysquirrel's post very interesting.

My mom is a full time business woman, she regretted not having more time with us growing up, however, I'm proud of her drive and accomplishment. She set a great example for me and my siblings regarding work ethics and business accument. All of us graduated from world class universities and have good career and family life. So yes, she set a damn good example. I can't imagine having a mom who is not driven.

My mum was SAHM until I was 10- as were prettyj much all my mates mums. And I thought that's all women could really do with their lives. I remember so clearly when my mum returned to her job and I was in pieces as I thought she'd stopped loving us and wanted to be away from us. My dad worked long hours and frequently traveled abroad and so I thought she'd be like him and I'd never see her. But she sat me down and explained how important working was to her and her identity, how she had skills she wasn't using and needed to. It blew my tiny little mind! So there's nothing wrong with being a SAHM but working mums have important lessons for their kids too as well as providing financially.

Perhaps younger children don't really take much notice of whether you work or not but older kids and teens do or at least my teen DD certainly does. She is starting to think about what she wants to do in life and is also taking more interest in what I do for work. It is important that she knows that I do something other than cooking and folding laundry. She is asking about jobs, careers and earnings and is very becoming aware that earning money gives you choices and freedom. So no she wasn't bothered at 7 but she is certainly very aware at 14.

Ok I'm a total simpleton because I cannot for the life of me work out what WOH stands for???? Can someone enlighten me