To think that "working mums set a great example to their children" is largely nonsense

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I grew up with a SAHM. It was bloody fantastic! Picked up by my mum, home after school, she came to assemblies, sports days, plays etc, I was able to have friends over after school. Plus I just loved being with my mum after school. There was something homely, comforting and cosy about it.

I didn't give the fact my mum didn't work any thought whatsoever. I worked like a dog for my GCSEs, a-levels, degree, professional exams and got a good well paid interesting career. I gave it up when I had my first child 7 years ago.

I'm a SAHM now, however next year I'm jumping in at the deep end. Will be commuting and long hours in a professional role. A number of people have said to me along the line "oh you'll be setting so much of a better example now for your children".

Am I alone in thinking "wtf?". A 7 year doesn't give a flying fig about whether his mum works. He/she would MUCH prefer mum to be picking him up from school, making his dinner, helping him with his reading, not having to go to a child minder / holiday clubs in the holidays?

It certainly didn't stop me pursuing a very good career, and the school I went to (private academic girls school) the vast majority of mothers didn't work, and many of those girls have gone on to have great career success (medicine, finance etc)

Is this just an argument pulled out by working mums trying to make themselves feel better? I'm going to be a working mum on a few months, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not going to think that my children are benefiting from the example I'm setting. I think some people forget how self absorbed most children are and seeing you dash off to work to do something important really isn't either here nor there for them!

Cross post there but YES yomaa- it sucks for men too, because there may be many of them out there being sidelined by a partner who won't transfer parental leave, or sees it as her 'right' to not have earning responsibility. Or indeed men who do play an active role in childcare and home making and feel social disapproval because of it.

@yomaa yes .. I would not say women have more choices though because they suffer discrimination at work, in a way that men don't. I agree that men are also badly affected by work not being set up for family life (totally agree with that comment by the way @roundaboutthetown ) as they are then less inclined to divide the domestic labour or SAH.

Babbity, what is your evidence that men not taking parental leave in the first year of their DC's life is due to their partner "sidelining" them?

There are many far more likely reasons.

Highly amused that personal factual experience is "anecdote" and therefore irrelevant, whereas statistics are "fact." There is a difference between agreeing that, structurally, society is set up in a way that makes it easier for women to sacrifice careers than men, and thinking that women who actively choose to SAH for a few years are a bad example of parenthood and a bad example of how to live a life.

By all means work to change society so that more men and women can make genuine choices. Just don't do that by in reality trying to shame people out of making choices.

Loopy- I said there may be men out there who aren't sharing parental leave for that reason (and many of us know anecdotally of couples where the woman has decided to take the entire leave herself, which means the father doesn't have a choice) There isn't masses of evidence yet about why this hard-fought for legislation has had such a low take up. There may be other reasons.... socially less acceptable for men maybe?

Not shaming anyone. It's really really hard!! I totally understand why a lot of women choose to SAH. That doesn't mean I think it's a positive role model.

I think the uptake of shared leave is so low because men fear the repercussions on their own careers.

Also the statutory pay is limited to 39 weeks so if the man takes half of the 52 weeks then he won't be paid for the last 3 months. Plus if the DH is the breadwinner then unless the company has a generous parental leave pay policy then it may not be affordable for the couple.

Is that because you think women should fight the good fight, TheGrumpySquirrel, or because you think having a SAHP is a bad example and therefore a SAHD an equally bad role model?

Grumpy- on the parental leave issue, it comes back to the fundamental inequality in wages though doesn't it? If the man is earning more (even before children come along!) then it's going to be more of a financial hit for him to take the leave.... and so it goes on

You want me to say I think that all women should sacrifice their happiness / family's well being if need be to fight for the greater good of gender equality? No, I'm not trying to tell individuals what to do. I don't think having one SAHP for a period of time is necessarily a bad example,I'm disappointed at the message it gives kids when it's nearly always the woman.

Do female firefighters / engineers / software developers set a good example to kids by showing that women can do other jobs than those traditionally ascribed to women? Or is this also bollocks?

In our family, it's just as often the men as the women, or both at different times, who have had a period of SAH. Maybe a lack of caring what the rest of society thinks about it helps with making the choices.

That's great - obviously if this type of inequality hasn't affected you it's very easy to judge others who it has.

I don't give 2 shits what other people think of my own choices, though, so bit confused by your last comment. The only person who has to be comfortable with your decisions is yourself.

But with such loud opinions that female firefighters or software engineers are a better example of womanhood than SAHMs or nurses, you clearly do give enough shits to stand in judgement on others' choices and what you think they "mean," TheGrumpySquirrel.

I don't think grumpy said any such thing!

Wow. Ok. I never said that, stop twisting my words. I'm trying to point out subtleties of this debate that you clearly don't understand. Why are there campaigns to get more women into STEM careers then? I'm out.

Everyone has their own view on SAHP vs working parent. Sounds like you are trying to justify all those years being at home. If you feel so strongly, why are you going back to work?
I was immensely proud of my working mum juggling it all, working to pay for my private school fees whilst being a single parent. In my class at school all the children had successful working mums apart from one girl whose mother was a housewife. I will never forget when the teacher went around the class asking each child what job their parents did, the girl whose mother didn't work referred to her mother as a house wife and the teacher told her that being a housewife was not a job. I cringed for the poor girl. Of course having a job or successful career sets an amazing example.

Because we need more people to go into STEM careers and these careers can be fascinating and emotionally and financially rewarding. We also need more carers, nurses and teachers. These careers are not financially rewarding and are insufficiently respected. I think trying to persuade more women to enter male-dominated professions is a blinkered approach which deals only with one side of the issue and buys into the notion that anything performed largely by women in the past and continuing into the present was and is of lower value to society and something that can just be taken for granted.

Ouch daydream- sounds a little insensitive of that teacher.

Nobody really campaigns to get more men into caring professions. Surely if we need more women in male dominated industries, we need more men in female dominated industries to fill in the gaps?

Well I may not be setting an "amazing example" Daydream as I've been at home 14 years, but I can say with 100% certainty that there are things my children would not have achieved or experienced if I had not been at home during these years. If I didn't think that, why would I have bothered?

I am equally proud of my own mother who was "only a housewife" for her inner strength and selflessness.

We are all doing our best.