To think that "working mums set a great example to their children" is largely nonsense

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I grew up with a SAHM. It was bloody fantastic! Picked up by my mum, home after school, she came to assemblies, sports days, plays etc, I was able to have friends over after school. Plus I just loved being with my mum after school. There was something homely, comforting and cosy about it.

I didn't give the fact my mum didn't work any thought whatsoever. I worked like a dog for my GCSEs, a-levels, degree, professional exams and got a good well paid interesting career. I gave it up when I had my first child 7 years ago.

I'm a SAHM now, however next year I'm jumping in at the deep end. Will be commuting and long hours in a professional role. A number of people have said to me along the line "oh you'll be setting so much of a better example now for your children".

Am I alone in thinking "wtf?". A 7 year doesn't give a flying fig about whether his mum works. He/she would MUCH prefer mum to be picking him up from school, making his dinner, helping him with his reading, not having to go to a child minder / holiday clubs in the holidays?

It certainly didn't stop me pursuing a very good career, and the school I went to (private academic girls school) the vast majority of mothers didn't work, and many of those girls have gone on to have great career success (medicine, finance etc)

Is this just an argument pulled out by working mums trying to make themselves feel better? I'm going to be a working mum on a few months, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not going to think that my children are benefiting from the example I'm setting. I think some people forget how self absorbed most children are and seeing you dash off to work to do something important really isn't either here nor there for them!

I think I am career minded as my mum worked, so yes I think it does make a difference. Anecdotally, out of my friends the ones that had mums with careers still have careers, the ones that didn't stay at home or have dinner lady/cleaning/waitressing type of jobs.

TheBogQueen, I admire how independent you have made your kids, I've always been around for my kids and my god getting them to be a bit more independent now is hard going!!

but as you say each family is different, I couldn't afford childcare on my low wage so I mostly worked part time and it suited us.

I just think that if the parents are happy in their relationship with each other and in their workplace, then the children will get good role models. If a mum is really unhappy being at home with the kids, then it's really not a good thing. Likewise, if both parents are unhappy at work, work tong hours, don't have time for quality time with their children, it's not good either.

I have a very different experience than Adventure1, I know plenty of mothers who have good careers and whose mothers were sahm. My mum was at home, which I loved as a child and appreciate looking back at my childhood. I had a pretty good career before kids and now have my own business, so like many parents have adapted my work to suit our family life. I feel that we are both DH and I good role models for our DSs (dh retrained as a teacher when I was pregnant so he has lots of holiday time with the kids).

Some people think working parents who use childcare are selfish. I think people with no ambition other to have kids and do housework are simpletons. So what?

People have different opinions - why do you care? Are you wanting people to validate yours?

Thing is, it's only mums who get all this flack isn't it. No one ever says, "why Steve, you set such a good example to your kids by working." Or "Steve aren't you afraid that you are neglecting your kids by working?"

It's only women. Only women who are asked if they will carry on working after a baby ("hey Steve, excellent job you did on that patients brain surgery- but are sure you will want to come back after you've had kids? Will you cope?")

No, it's only women. We can't fucking win can we? There's no debate about working fathers. Until we have a lot more equality in terms of BOTH parents parenting equally and BOTH parents taking leave this isn't going to change. I'm the meantime, women get bashed for working, bashed for not working, and bashed for everything else. I'm pretty fucking sick of it to be honest. You set a good example to your kids by modelling g good behaviours in terms of dealing with others, honesty, resilience yada yada yada. That can be done by going out to work and it can be done by being a sahp.

The real issues are shit worker protection, shit maternity /parental leave pay and shitty, expensive childcare. Both parents benefit from them being improved, so maybe lets direct our energies to sorting that out?

Simpleton is quite unkind. I'm certainly not a simpleton, but I did come off the career path when I had DCs. I am not ambitious, but motherhood fulfils the nurturer in me, which is my strongest instinct. We are all different, no judging needed.

Love your post Anatidae.

I think people who call others simpletons are unlikely to be good role models for their children.

It's not ok to use the term simpleton. That's offensive. It's clearly not true, many women who are stay at home mums had good careers before hand and not just jobs.

I agree with the poster who said kids probably do appreciate their mum being home when they are little, but when they get older usually mentally question it but not say anything.

However kids also appreciate a big bowl of ice cream instead of their dinner, and often it's the bigger picture that needs to be considered in terms of what's best for the family long term.

Men are expected to work just as women are expected to work, it's simply much less of them take the route of not working, hence why it's less of a discussion.

My mum was a sahm for ten years and she was miserable she was bored and frustrated and such a happier person and better mum when she went back to full time work.
It very much depends on the individual . I loved being home when they were babies but it's pretty relentless during the pre school years and I def lost sense of my identity and was getting quite depressed beforecreturning to work so I think I'm a better mum now I work part time (although Am much more rubbish at cleaning and cooking now I'm back at work) this is generally the case in the mums I know although the odd one is a real earth mother who loves being a sahm and is a lovely calm mum but she's in the minority

I think people with no ambition other to have kids and do housework are simpletons. So what?

I can only laugh at this comment. Hope you are nice and comfy sitting on your judgemental throne.

I've never met anyone who had no ambition other than to have kids and do housework I was a sahm for 25 years and all the mums I knew or met all had lots going on beside housework.

Tbh imo the simpletons are those who can't imagine anything other than going to work and family.
There's a whole world out there that shock horror sahm's make use of

It's mainly women who spend their time talking about this, and women make up more than 50% of the population, so if there is a lot of criticism of women whatever they do, you can't blame all that on men - women are colossally judgemental beings and colossally verbal about it, too. They spend so much time putting each other in their place that men just don't need to get involved... Remove all the men from the world and women would still be going out of their way to sit in judgement on each other's choices.

I was a nanny for over 20 years and at the end was at the top of the profession.

I'm now a simpleton who stays home with ds and grows most of our food, makes a lot of our clothes, raises animals. Sad to know an overwhelming amount of you think I'm not setting a good example.

Some people think working parents who use childcare are selfish. I think people with no ambition other to have kids and do housework are simpletons. So what

The irony of that post which doesn't show you to be particularly erudite

YANBU

But I think what people are really alluding to is their view that not working in a paid role is a moral failing, rather than not providing your dc's with a role model for a great career and lots of success.

The view that not working is a moral failing is the logical outcome of many years of Tory and press bashing of people who are not economically productive.

"I think people with no ambition other to have kids and do housework are simpletons"

Do you really think being at home caring for a family is somehow less intellectually and emotionally satisfying than say, filleting chicken on a production line, or working in a warehouse or something?

I only work part time. I read about 70 novels last year.

In the past people used to fantasise about a life where paid work didn't take up most of the hours in the day.

Would add, that most people's jobs are a bit shit.

We're not all human rights lawyers, doctors and interior designers.

Most jobs are fucking dull, poorly paid, repetitive, and with no outlet for innovation.

But apparently we should all aspire to have one...

I think people with no ambition other to have kids and do housework are simpletons. So what?

I don't know a single person that fits that description. You sound a bit thick yourself to be honest, if you can't imagine that people generally do what suits their family circumstances and not out of a single minded ambition to never work anywhere than in the domestic sphere. Out of interest do you think that about people who do that job for others? You know, like house keepers and Early Years education providers? Or is it just people doing it for their own families you sneer at?

I think you need a balance. I stayed at home or worked evenings and weekends while my kids were small so I could be there for things like toddler groups, school plays, school holidays etc and my children have lots of good memories of those times but now my youngest is 12 I am back working a proper job and trying to build up a career again so she sees there is more to life than being a housewife. I go to college as well at the moment and I want my sons and my daughter to see that age, gender and being a mum does not mean you can't strive for more. But if they decide to be a housewife/husband in the future that will be their choice .

mini

Just the 70 novels, clearly you are doing too much housework

I totally agree with you about not so long ago people fantasising about having more free time.

If you have a shit job there's not much scope for innovation or fulfilment.
It is clearly as a means to an end.
Having a crap job is certainly nothing to aspire to. Whereas raising your children as a sahm gives far more opportunities for fulfilment and success in life, if you believe that success is being happy with your life.

My work I can work from home when I want so can see all the plays and that type of thing. I would hate to be a SAHM. I like coming home knowing my dinner is cooked. I don't like the day after day stressy bits. DH and I have done it both ways round and both working. I know I am the lucky one walking out to a peaceful workplace!

Ok I'll bite

1. I don't think being a SAHM is a feminist choice. I know people who say this get flamed on here but the day that there are equally as many SAHD then I'll agree it's just a choice, rather than reinforcing the sexist structure of our society. Same for women taking men's surnames etc. Choices are not made in a vacuum.

1. A balance is nice, but not always realistic. If a balance is the goal, where kids have support with homework from parents, someone at home to eat dinner with them, a parent that can attend school events etc blah blah, this should be shared with the father where possible. Why do mums get all the flak for doing this / not doing this? Gives me the rage. Women have just as much right to a career as men, even if they have kids - YES REALLY. No one is criticising a dad that comes home at 8pm every night. However men are expected to work that much, and women are not.

Men generally behave as society expects, as do women. Going against this is hard work. That's why I really admire career women and SAHD and I think they ARE setting a good example to their children that YES you can be different - you don't have to conform to gender stereotypes. I hope that one day we will have a truly equal, "gender expectation neutral" society. I'm a working woman in an aggressive male dominated environment and yes it's really really hard; you feel like you are fighting all the time not to get sucked back into the path of least resistance & do what everyone expects (maybe some other wohm will know what I mean?).

1. My mum was a SAHM and up to and including the time we were at school it WAS nice for us to have more time with her, have support at home etc. But this arrangement had the consequences of not having much of a relationship with our father, who travelled with work a lot, and my mum never had a career outside various part time jobs even after we left school. It would have been fairer (and actually better for us)!if we had a balance from both parents. She didn't have an equal relationship with my dad, had low self esteem and I didn't have much respect for the way she was walked all over - pretty unfair I know and also not true for all SAHM. However this is my personal experience. As a result I'm terrified of ever being like her, but I also have massive WOHM guilt - even though my hours are very reasonable (see: societal expectations above).

I agree with the PP who said that I would have admired my mum for having a career more than conforming to the 1950s stereotype of shouldering all the domestic load, even if it meant I had less time with a parent at home. I do think WOHM set a good example to their kids, as do SAHD or dads that make their work fit around their kids.

I do think WOHM set a good example to their kids, as do SAHD

Aaaah. So it's just SAHM who don't?