To think that "working mums set a great example to their children" is largely nonsense

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I grew up with a SAHM. It was bloody fantastic! Picked up by my mum, home after school, she came to assemblies, sports days, plays etc, I was able to have friends over after school. Plus I just loved being with my mum after school. There was something homely, comforting and cosy about it.

I didn't give the fact my mum didn't work any thought whatsoever. I worked like a dog for my GCSEs, a-levels, degree, professional exams and got a good well paid interesting career. I gave it up when I had my first child 7 years ago.

I'm a SAHM now, however next year I'm jumping in at the deep end. Will be commuting and long hours in a professional role. A number of people have said to me along the line "oh you'll be setting so much of a better example now for your children".

Am I alone in thinking "wtf?". A 7 year doesn't give a flying fig about whether his mum works. He/she would MUCH prefer mum to be picking him up from school, making his dinner, helping him with his reading, not having to go to a child minder / holiday clubs in the holidays?

It certainly didn't stop me pursuing a very good career, and the school I went to (private academic girls school) the vast majority of mothers didn't work, and many of those girls have gone on to have great career success (medicine, finance etc)

Is this just an argument pulled out by working mums trying to make themselves feel better? I'm going to be a working mum on a few months, and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not going to think that my children are benefiting from the example I'm setting. I think some people forget how self absorbed most children are and seeing you dash off to work to do something important really isn't either here nor there for them!

Oh for fuck's sake.

Some mums set a great example to their kids. Some do not.

Whether they work or not is irrelevant. Whether they are a dick or not is absolutely relevant.

Ha! Hit post not return!

I think as mothers we are 'damned if you do and damned if you don't'.

Things are rarely black and white. We do the best we can in our own circumstances.

I was lucky as we could afford for me to be a SAHM. We chose that because DD was very unhappy at nursery and actually DS wasn't happy with his (lovely) after-school childminder. (Nor was I happy working long hours and rarely seeing them).

I became a SAHM because my DM had worked and I had been unhappy. Not the fact that she worked but her ambition meant many school changes for me with the knock-on effect of me pulling my hair out.

My Dsis is a single parent so has absolutely no option but to work or they wouldn't eat. She has however demoted herself as her pre-DD job took up too much time and commitment.

I don't think either of us are good or bad examples to our DC. Just doing what we feel is the best in our own circumstances.

Both of my DC know that I had a very well paid and 'desirable' job before I became a SAHM. I'd had to work hard to get there and that I had had opportunities as a result.

They appreciate that hard work and job success gives you choices including the option to put money away so that you can take time out or pack it in at a later stage if you want!

My Mum generally volunteered or worked part time when we were at school but was always there when we came home. I took it for granted at the time but of course loved her being there.

Since we left home for university, however, I feel quite sad on her behalf that she never had a career and only a series of part time jobs to earn money that she never really enjoyed. She doesn't have many friends (none from work) and her life revolves around her family. I am very fearful about how (if) she will cope if something happens to my Dad, and sad for her that she expresses sadness that she has never used her intelligence enough in her working life.

Anecdotes like this have very little application to other people, many of whom I am sure are genuinely happy to stay at home or not have a career (and some of whom can find intellectual fulfilment in other ways). However, my Mum's particular experience made me determined always to have a career so that I can have the personal intellectual fulfilment that I don't think she ever did. It makes me a little sad that fifteen years of making sacrifices to be there for her children has meant an entire lifetime (including nearly 20 years of work after we left home) feeling a tiny bit lonely and personally unfulfilled.

PS I also think it is interesting that Bordersarebest made the opposite choice because her Mum worked - it just shows how incredibly difficult it is and always has been for women to get it right! Which is exactly why we need to support and not criticise each other for our choices.

andintothefire - your mother had plenty of opportunities to make friends and have a life outside her family through her part time and voluntary work. That she does not have friends or interests outside of her family is a facet of her personality, not an inevitable result of her choices. A career is also not the only means of achieving intellectual fulfilment. The glass is always also half full when it is half empty - your dm would have had a different life if she had focused less on her family, but she would also have had different regrets. And to be brutally honest, probably would not have any more friends either way - she has had plenty of chances at friendship in her life through volunteering, part time work, meeting other parents, etc.

Which is a rather harsh way of agreeing with you, I guess, andintothefire. There is no right and wrong, black and white in these choices.

My mum stayed at home. I loved it when I was little, but when I was older I remember wondering why she didn't get a job. I do think that working is a good example to a daughter, as it shows that women are equal and don't just exist to do chores, and that men aren't just walking wallets. However, I don't think this benefit really kicks in until the children are a bit older - pre-schoolers probably do prefer their mums to be around.

Yawns and wanders off to find a good parking thread.

I get so frustrated on these threads because people keep talking about choice and how women should be able to choose whether to stay home or not. What about dads? Would they not like to have the choice to spend the early years with their kids or is it only mums who get the option?

I have three children. I love working full time.

Working parents where the household jobs are equally divided and not based on gender set a good example.

In my case, I was a SAHM and did everything, XH went to work. I set a terrible example to my children.

Now I'm a working single mother. Still, I do not set a good example to my children as I work PT and I have continued to do everything.

I have to change habits I have formed over a 15 year period and change those I created in my children.

Night owl, I agree. Men don't seem to get a choice.

Despite it being 2017, lots of children are still getting the message that boys have to work but girls don't. Little wonder we have not reached equality in the workplace.

Schools, colleges and unis try to combat this but there is only so much they can do. Children tend to follow their role models so if mum never worked then they think it's the norm.

From a male point of view, I wonder how many contemplate whether they were picked for them or the lifestyle they could provide their wife.

I get so frustrated on these threads because people keep talking about choice and how women should be able to choose whether to stay home or not. What about dads? Would they not like to have the choice to spend the early years with their kids or is it only mums who get the option?

This is a predominantly female site talking about women's issues and concerns. The SAHM and WOHM debate is regularly discussed as historically and mainly presently women take most responsibility for childcare. Why do we have to consider men in every debate we have? Why don't you start a thread about your frustration? It's true that you don't see many threads from men discussing such issues because often they're unaffected by such dilemmas and that is considered socially acceptable. Personally I would love to see the majority of men having these concerns, I won't be holding my breath though.

let's not kid ourselves, most dads are thankful they work full time and they can walk out the door and leave the mess and the laundry and the wailing kids behind them

Men don't seem to get a choice

I'm not sure any more. I know very few SAHP but out of the handful I do 2 are men. They didn't want their dc in childcare and earned less than their wives so it made sense for them to be the one to give up and SAH. I suppose in general men earn more so they are less likely to give it up. Most families I know have either both parents working ft or one ft and one pt. Where the mum has gone part time it's always been because they've wanted to. In couples where both parents earn the same it does always seem to be the mum who compromises her career but j my experience that has been her choice.

ssd has it. Why else do so few men take up their paternity leave or work part time compared to women?

When the gender pay gap closes up and women break through the glass ceilings there will be choice. Until then economics will largely determine which parent stays at home.

And as for being a SAHP being a life style choice? There's a general expectation that the one at home does the bulk of the dross. It's not a fucking lifestyle.

And for those who WOHM that I know, they still do all the thinking and drive the housekeeping.

Of course this is very subjective, but the truth is a strong, warm and empathetic mother is a good example regardless of whether she is a SAHM or a working mum. Many of us HAD to go back to work to leave our violent husbands as has been said, but the real test is when your children grow up, not when they are young. When they are young you do your best for them whatever you choose. If you are a working mum you make an effort on an evening and weekend to spend quality time with them. A SAHM can be a bit more relaxed, but we all know that an intelligent person with no outlet can be the worst thing and lead to mental health problems, as has also been mentioned. I felt the need to explain to my children at the time, and once they were adults, why I returned to work. Both my daughters have since said I was an inspiration to them in overcoming whatever hurdles they have had in life. That is the proof really - so no, it is not rubbish. It is rubbish to going over this thing again and again when as women we have made such strides to have the choice. The last word there - choice - is the important one.

well, money is the driving factor of course, but let's not kid ourselves, most men go gaga at home without their wives/partners to help them out, also it must be hard trying to fit into toddler groups and library sessions when it's mostly women or grans, it's hard enough fitting into these things when you are female!!

My children 7, 10, 13 are now pretty organised. They pack for school days and many activities. They are quite independent. They ask me and DP about our work.

They also put up with a house which is pretty untidy and not always clean because Dpand I work full time (am about to get a cleaner once I've cleaned the house for her) They know we cannot go along to parents events at the primary school at the drop of a hat.

Nobody's life is perfect we just play the hand we are dealt.

And I love working, for my mental
Health and self esteem.

whats with the stupid biscuits on this site???

if you don't agree, say so, don't post a wee line of biscuits, it's just ridiculous

I don't know why mnhq bothered introducing them, they are twee beyond belief

Surely the important thing is that children see their parents having choice? It is beneficial for children to see parents making choices and sharing responsibilities, rather than taking the roles expected of them purely because they are expected.

Love love love this comment!!
Families make arrangements that best suit the family as a whole.
I know amazing SAHPs and amazing WOHPS. Both set fantastic examples to their children.
I also know several who regret/feel stressed by or unfulfilled or trapped by their choices. That is what seems to set a poor example (if not successfully concealed from the children).